FAIRVIEW >:D

Now that we know Vestal Virgin stays.............will sh1t in next time...maybe....

Rowdy (et all), maybe you misunderstood me bud. Smith is my least favourite trainer. In fact he annoys the fark out of me. I hear you S but of all the trainers I've ever heard in post race interviews, Smith tells the punters nothing. I don't mean to cause potential problems for Bob and Dave, and hopefully it doesn't, but the guy to me gives the punters nothing and deserves no respect in return.
(Part removed as an edit as I confess I am not certain of my memory!!! and it is unfair to state things I am not sure about!)
Yes, we may not be owners etc but the bottom line is... no punters, no horse racing. Trying to guess which Smith runner will win on a card is harder than just using a pin. Odds on fav in the first "struggles" to run straight, 14/1 shot which halves in price but is not included in their PA given to ABC wins. Anybody out there want to tell me I'm inventing things, go right ahead, you might well be right but personally, I wouldn't trust the guy with R10 of mine and he is the main reason I have decided to stop punting at Fairview, its hard enough finding winners without... whatever. Oh sorry, no games being played, just mediocre horses surprising everyone. Bolox.

Bushy Wrote:

---

> Guys the way you need to look at it is this: You
> wake up at 4am each morning, put in the long hard
> hours in training, dealing with
> owners/jocks/grooms and horses sh1t each day, but
> then at the end of the day you give out all your
> information that you've worked hard to achieve and
> get to a certain point with horses, and you want
> to give it out for the rest of the punting public
> to make money off your hard work? Besides the
> likes of Louis, Shams, Craig etc that are
> transparent on the forum, aswell as the likes of
> GVZ, without any disrespect to trainers, but i
> think many are involved in withholding information
> from punters on certain horses and/or punts that
> they may have...but good on them, because the
> owners are the ones paying the bills, so they
> should be given exclusive access to the
> information.
>
> If i was an owner, buying horses for R200k and
> bills of R10k a month, i certainly wouldnt want
> the whole world to know how good my horse is doing
> and for them to gain from the same information as
> me IF I AM A PUNTER. That SMS of Paddock, Gav
> Smith etc goes out in the morning, if they had to
> banker DJ in the PA at a price of 16/1 for
> interests sake, do you not think the whole world
> would catch onto this that they make it a really
> good thing on the day? and as 11am arrives it gets
> claimed and shorten into 5/1. If im a punter i'd
> ask my trainer to not bank my horse that we having
> a punt on, but add in that leg what else he
> fancies besides my horse, let my horse drift out
> and then punt it at bigger odds.
>
> Would you not want the same as a PUNTING
> owner/trainer?

Bushy, I like you, I think you talk a lot of sense but I honestly think that is the way to kill horse racing. Listen carefully.... I am not interested in punting at Fairview any more because I am sick of owners being paid off (and *****) filling his pockets at my expense. Yes, owners should maybe be able to get the early price but why make out it has no chance or whatever so us punters back everything else just so they can get 14/1 rather than 8/1. It sucks bud. Pure greed.

Bushy Wrote:

---

> Guys the way you need to look at it is this: You
> wake up at 4am each morning, put in the long hard
> hours in training, dealing with
> owners/jocks/grooms and horses sh1t each day, but
> then at the end of the day you give out all your
> information that you've worked hard to achieve and
> get to a certain point with horses, and you want
> to give it out for the rest of the punting public
> to make money off your hard work? Besides the
> likes of Louis, Shams, Craig etc that are
> transparent on the forum, aswell as the likes of
> GVZ, without any disrespect to trainers, but i
> think many are involved in withholding information
> from punters on certain horses and/or punts that
> they may have...but good on them, because the
> owners are the ones paying the bills, so they
> should be given exclusive access to the
> information.
>
> If i was an owner, buying horses for R200k and
> bills of R10k a month, i certainly wouldnt want
> the whole world to know how good my horse is doing
> and for them to gain from the same information as
> me IF I AM A PUNTER. That SMS of Paddock, Gav
> Smith etc goes out in the morning, if they had to
> banker DJ in the PA at a price of 16/1 for
> interests sake, do you not think the whole world
> would catch onto this that they make it a really
> good thing on the day? and as 11am arrives it gets
> claimed and shorten into 5/1. If im a punter i'd
> ask my trainer to not bank my horse that we having
> a punt on, but add in that leg what else he
> fancies besides my horse, let my horse drift out
> and then punt it at bigger odds.
>
> Would you not want the same as a PUNTING
> owner/trainer?

Bushy, so does that mean the owners for the Shams, Eudleys, Goosens and GVZ etc don't care /worry / punt etc?

@Englander...I share your sentiments...I don't punt....but I also don't like being used.....(tu)

IMHO I actually love PE racing, purely for what I call it's higher "greed factor"

I can ascertain with a certain degree of probability which trainer's horses does not have the "intent" to win and purely based on that "greed factor" them not intending to win with for e.g. R1#11 Wild Blu @ 8/10 purely because the odds are too low I can get way better odds with #2 Tiger's Charm @ 8/1, hence utilizing the human "greed factor" to your advantage. Smith will not come and win with a 8/10 horse except if 1) the stakes money is big enough or 2) the handicap penalty would not be too harsh to win again... reason being that the income generated does not justify the handicap penalty, however if Wild Blu was say for e.g. 5/2 be sure Race 1 would have had a different result ... personally I hate it but human behavior. The intent for Smith today was to win with Big Red but the horse was simply not good enough to win and could only manage 3rd... just have a look at the results vs. odds of Smith's #1 Big Red itself to prove my theory:

13 May - 6/1 - 3rd
8 June - 18/10 - 9th
9 July - 28/10 - 6th
9 Nov - 7/1-14/1 - 2nd
7 Dec 12/1-16/1 - 2nd

My opinion is therefore Smith never intended to win with Wild Blu today...he would rather win with it above 5/2 but that is part of the 3 key ingredients 1) Form 2) Intent 3) Value if I was a bookmaker I would have offered way better odds on Wild Blu today since there was never any intent to win with Wild Blu today... DJ Detzky(3rd May MR94 - today MR75) , Zezinho Campeao (MR83-75) on the other hand.... well there is value to lose some handicap point there ...

Just my humble opinion...data is there to make my own conclusions

Observe... that is an excellently executed "statement". Is Agent Smith the only example of this? I would love to see other similar "documentation" you may have.

Obviously PM with it though, we don't want all clanners to know and thus ruin future prices for us <

Englander Wrote:

---

> Observe... that is an excellently executed
> "statement". Is Agent Smith the only example of
> this? I would love to see other similar
> "documentation" you may have.
>
> Obviously PM with it though, we don't want all
> clanners to know and thus ruin future prices for
> us <


you Man U supporter....you....

Lionel, i think with all due respect to trainers who post here, maybe they could answer this question for me, but i think they would have to ask their owners first if they can post and tell the public about their horses first? If i was an owner i certainly would NOT want my trainer telling the whole world to get stuck into my horse without asking me first. For example, GVZ is always very transparent, but when he had 4 babies running the other day, he said "with respect to the owners i cannot say which is the right horse of the 4." I respect that and thats what i'd want as an owner, but if he had asked the owners if he could be fully transparent in his podcast and they said fine well then everyone is happy.

Bushy Wrote:

---

> Lionel, i think with all due respect to trainers
> who post here, maybe they could answer this
> question for me, but i think they would have to
> ask their owners first if they can post and tell
> the public about their horses first? If i was an
> owner i certainly would NOT want my trainer
> telling the whole world to get stuck into my horse
> without asking me first. For example, GVZ is
> always very transparent, but when he had 4 babies
> running the other day, he said "with respect to
> the owners i cannot say which is the right horse
> of the 4." I respect that and thats what i'd want
> as an owner, but if he had asked the owners if he
> could be fully transparent in his podcast and they
> said fine well then everyone is happy.

Bushy, point noted. By all means, let the owners get their price first. But, for the sustainability of this sport, the sharing of info must improve drastically, thereby securing the occupation of these same trainers.

The owners will come and go, but punters generally are there for the long haul. Give them a bone too.

Bushy... I'm definitely with Lionel. I accept the role that owners play etc and I am happy that they take a price. What annoys me is that instead of simply taking the first price, they want us all to back losers to increase the price they can obtain. And it seems to me its not a rare occurence in SA. If they were just satisfied with having their bet at the opening price and then telling the world it has a good chance then we could all potentially have a share of the pie. But they don't, as I said before, they make us lose our money so they can get 14s instead of 8s or whatever, it is sheer greed to me. With prices up so early in SA they can easily take the price the day before and leave us the remnants should we choose to take the lower price. And don't forget it is your money they are putting in their pockets, its not the bookies money, they are just the middle man. And you say GVZ says with "respect to the owners"... what about a little respect for the punter? We are still seen as worthless mugs by many of them, unimportant and just here to fuel their game and their pockets. And do not forget, part of this "moan" was because some of us felt deceived, it wasn't just a case of not being told, it was the implication it had no chance. That may have been entirely innocent but personally, because of my particular dislike for the lack of help this stable seems to provide, I doubt it. There also plenty owners on ABC who come on the forum early and advise clanners of any chance their horse may have, the good guys (tu)