Handicapping in SA Horseracing no wonder the Good Horses are sold overseas

What has handicapping to do with good horses sold overseas?

And the post comes at Summer Cup time and the result has the 1-4 withing 1.20 L and the next 8 in 4.5L. The only argument is how good the handicapper is. The 3/1 0.80 L off and the two 100/1 shots 6L and 10L.

Most purchases from overseas probably happen because of a high rating. Really good horses spend very little time in handicaps.

Yes, no one can deny that a reckless rating can easily cause a horse trouble, and a stray bullet can can kill someone, but how does either of those reflect on the rules? And you can fix a rating pretty quickly.

Is this the same generic moan about handicapping where a single example is supposed to prove something? Clearly I too am missing something. What is it?

And that’s the point I’ve been trying to make since joining this conversation....

Horses with high ratings like the 2 we’ve discussed above should be in weight for age races and not handicaps. Trainer/owner error.

If they went overseas, they would certainly be running in condition races and not handicaps and hence the high rated horses go overseas. You can’t send a 85 rated horse to run at weight for age.

Now that you have a horse with a high rating, place him correctly and it should pay dividend or he will run badly and his rating will drop and then he will be competitive in handicaps again..

For me the question is:: why in this handicapping era in SA have we not changed more of the graded races to WFA or condition racing as to get the top horses to compete and or at least be competitive.

after they have run as two year olds and three year olds how many good horses are lost because they cant find sufficient quality races to compete in??

oscar wrote: A 115 in SA certainly does not equate to a 115 in UK unless you know something I don't.

I would say that in most cases a rating in SA does not equate to an international rating - but as I said in the opening line of my post, I am not clear on what the gripe is about .....

If the argument is that most SA horses are rated too high (in relation to horses racing internationally) I think that many people would agree - although it can't be all bad for the owners that sell their local heroes to overseas connections - they are basically selling a non-premium product at a premium price - of course in general this does not bode well for trading SA horses internationally in the future - but there will always be those that pay too much for something they 'must have'

If the argument is that some SA horses are rated too high in relation to their counterparts, imo it is not generally true as the handicappers are mostly getting in right - limited as they are by some fairly silly (imo) rules - although there are always exceptions

Sylvester wrote: For me the question is:: why in this handicapping era in SA have we not changed more of the graded races to WFA or condition racing as to get the top horses to compete and or at least be competitive.

after they have run as two year olds and three year olds how many good horses are lost because they cant find sufficient quality races to compete in??

I think many will agree with this argument, however the handicappers surely can't be blamed for the programming of races - they just rate them - they can't start off by saying ' well if we rate this horse at 100, he won't be able to find a race to compete in' ; somebody else (guess who?) must take the blame for the lack of races for highly rated horses :ohmy:

Part of the reason for the ratings adjustment and the loss of some graded races with in response to international pressure.

We have a relatively small racing population and that does result in not having a very big bench of grade 1 quality horses. And it gets worse when you factor in stamina for classic distances. We've had lots of sprinters who can come back year after year at WFA. Same with milers. Horses like Freemyheart, Flaming Rock Jet Master could win again and again in WFA miles. Currently Legal Eagle makes a proper bid for a 3rd Queens Plate. But racking up multiple Mets or Julys is not so easy.

We see all the time that conditions races struggle to attract big fields, and that it because most runners in any conditions race would be better off against the best horse if it were a handicap, so generally most horses don't want "worse" conditions than being at handicap terms.

In the Summer Cup, 10 of the 19 carded horses carried 52 kgs, and 8 of those were under sufferance. The only Met horse at 60 kgs carried 5.5kgs more than the next horse. The point I'm making is I don't know that just making WFA or conditions race is the quick fix one might hope.

On that note, I'm fairly sure that even the Ass Plt experiment (conditions) has achieved nothing more than being a hand out to high rated problem horses from big yards. Same small field issues and gives me the same feeling as a punter that I get from barrier trials (puke). It's done nothing for horses who might have won very early in their careers, if that was ever the real intention. If you want to spit in the wound, just take the crops away, and call the clowns.

Ok I get the title may be a little misleading but offers for horses are only made if the handicap puts a horse out of handicap races. That is why I am saying our horses are not at the same handicap as those in UK USA HK Aus . The fact of the matter is what is a 90 odd rated horse doing racing in a Grade 2 race..They hold graded races which are the best of the best as handicaps!! if you don’t run there are no other races available .. racing in SA has big problems and lucky there are owners around but they will start leaving that is a certainty you can banker in all bets

My opinion

Our Graded races apart from the Cup and The July should all be WFA

Frodo I’m not disagreeing with you but I’m saying a few things in my post
1. People offer money for local horses when the handicapper sticks their rating up over a level because they are then able to compete overseas in races immediately
2. These handicap ratings are not equivalent worldwide.. I had a go at the handicapper who stuck my horse up to a rating he is not in real life at but of course he has now left .. I tried to get it relooked at to no avail.. he made sure that at that handicap he would never win again
3. Horses that are handicapped high have no choice but to race in these Graded handicap races unless you send him around the country which not everyone likes to do

Personally I don’t care anymore what they do with racing in SA I don’t care who runs it who makes money from it etc... I have had my view people can shoot it down I don’t take it personally but something will crack sooner than later

Always good to chat, oscar - and thanks for explaining your comments .... and we do agree that 'handicap ratings are not equivalent world wide' .... but imo it does not automatically follow that SA horse are too high IN A SOUTH AFRICAN CONTEXT ... (relative to other SA horses competing in SA)

So you believe that Pinnacle Peak has been given an unrealistic rating by the handicapper.

I had a look at his last 5 runs and imo his best effort was in the Golden Horse Sprint where he got beat by a length by Bold Respect giving that one half a kg - on the strength of that they gave him a rating of 115 - which does not seem that unrealistic given that they rated Bold Respect at 118 on that run

I do however agree with you (for what its worth) that these ratings look a little high - considering that BR then got beat 2.75 lengths in his next start at handicap level (Cape Merchants) - however one also has to take into account that BR came back after a break and was most likely not at his best (also indicated by a betting drift form 13/2 to 12s)

You have a very good sprinter on your hands (at best over 1000 imo) - so just enjoy him - and as stated imo he is only slightly over-rated by the handicapper (perhaps he should be around 111/112) but could still be very competitive in those Graded Handicaps - and also will not be out of place (as shown by his run in the Computaform Sprint) at set weights

I trust he came back ok after Saturday - and all the best with him going forward

And you have some of the best people looking after him.

you only looking for points as you would not really know would you