tote bet cancellations
- Bob Brogan
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Re: Re: tote bet cancellations
16 years 4 months ago
think its to get others to follow the money,there-fore creating a greater price for their selection??
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- Dave Scott
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Re: Re: tote bet cancellations
16 years 4 months ago
This was my fav scam, done on a bigger scale, but you get the idea, posted on the Forum many moons ago!
Bookies hit by betting syndicate
PM - Thursday, 22 December , 2005 18:37:44
Reporter: Daniel Hoare
TANYA NOLAN: It's been a well-known feature of horse racing, but now the greyhound racing industry is facing its own scandal over an alleged betting sting.
More details have emerged today of a million dollar sting on a lowly dog race on Queensland's Gold Coast.
Unsuspecting bookmakers were left shaking their heads, when a group of anonymous punters manipulated TAB betting pools, and the bookies' odds, to land their remarkable coup.
But the astute betting syndicate won't face any penalties, because their elaborate scam was entirely within the rules.
From Melbourne, Daniel Hoare reports.
(sound of greyhound race call)
DANIEL HOARE: With small prize money and even fewer die hard followers, greyhound racing is the poor cousin of thoroughbred and harness racing.
But the dogs are attracting plenty of news this week, and many say it's for all the wrong reasons.
Details are emerging about an elaborate betting sting involving an unknown number of punters who targeted a lowly greyhound meeting on Queensland's Gold Coast on Tuesday.
The greyhound in question was the well-performed, but not so well-known, Lucy's Light, whose record was impressive enough for the betting syndicate to target the dog as a certain winner.
Because greyhound racing really isn't all that popular with the punters, the TAB betting pools are normally pretty small. And that's why the syndicate targeted a dog race, because it doesn't take much money to manipulate the odds in a greyhound race.
It took about $150,000 in bets to land the estimated $1 million payout on Lucy's Light. And here's how it worked. In essence, the punting syndicate took a group of bookmakers by surprise, inflating the winning odds by 1,000 per cent in the final minutes before the race started.
Most of the bookmakers who took the bets on Lucy's Light are based in the Northern Territory. And they offer a service that's outlawed in most states, whereby they will match the same odds offered by the TAB in the state which is hosting the dog race.
So the punters set out to manipulate the Queensland TAB odds without the bookies in the Northern Territory knowing.
They did so in the knowledge that the Northern Territory bookies were legally bound to match the price of the Queensland TAB.
Using Queensland TAB telephone betting accounts, the punters placed $16,000 on each of the other five greyhounds in the race, and they left it to the last minute, so as not to reveal their plot.
By backing the other runners, they pushed the winning odds of Lucy's Luck out to $13 on the Queensland TAB – nice odds in comparison to the $1.30 dividend of all the other TABs.
And that's where they made their million. While some of the group focused on pushing the odds out on their TAB in the dying seconds before the race, the others were heavily backing the dog with the unsuspecting Northern Territory bookies.
The punting team plonked about $75,000 worth of bets on Lucy's Luck, spreading the money with a variety of bookies so as to avoid blowing their cover.
When the punters had done all they could, it was then left up to the unsuspecting greyhound to do its bit:
(sound of greyhound race call: "… Up goes Lucy's Light, takes the lead from Floatsy Maxi, now she's coming away… Lucy's Light gets away to win by seven lengths")
DANIEL HOARE: Greyhound racing authorities as well as bookies and the TABs have been left highly unimpressed by the sting.
But there's little they can do, as there are no laws preventing punters from manipulating betting pools.
And the bookies know that if they're going to offer TAB odds, there's risks involved.
One of the bookies who got caught out in the sting was Christian Sawyer, from the betting firm CentreRacing in Alice Springs.
CHRISTIAN SAWYER: What they've done is manipulated a system to their own advantage. I mean, I can't see what they've done is illegal… it's something which the (inaudible) bookmakers have tailored as a product. So it's something they've got to wear when things like this happen, so…
DANIEL HOARE: Do you think it's all fair when it comes to this type of thing?
CHRISTIAN SAWYER: Well, as I said, it's not illegal, it's probably, I mean, they've put on a sting, or a rort, depending on what you want to call it, and they've got the money, so…
DANIEL HOARE: Have you ever seen a greyhound sting like this before?
CHRISTIAN SAWYER: Not to this extent. I mean, as I said, I've seen them manipulate TAB pools before, but not to this extent.
TANYA NOLAN: One of the unsuspecting Alice Springs bookmakers, Christian Sawyer. That report from Daniel Hoare.
Bookies hit by betting syndicate
PM - Thursday, 22 December , 2005 18:37:44
Reporter: Daniel Hoare
TANYA NOLAN: It's been a well-known feature of horse racing, but now the greyhound racing industry is facing its own scandal over an alleged betting sting.
More details have emerged today of a million dollar sting on a lowly dog race on Queensland's Gold Coast.
Unsuspecting bookmakers were left shaking their heads, when a group of anonymous punters manipulated TAB betting pools, and the bookies' odds, to land their remarkable coup.
But the astute betting syndicate won't face any penalties, because their elaborate scam was entirely within the rules.
From Melbourne, Daniel Hoare reports.
(sound of greyhound race call)
DANIEL HOARE: With small prize money and even fewer die hard followers, greyhound racing is the poor cousin of thoroughbred and harness racing.
But the dogs are attracting plenty of news this week, and many say it's for all the wrong reasons.
Details are emerging about an elaborate betting sting involving an unknown number of punters who targeted a lowly greyhound meeting on Queensland's Gold Coast on Tuesday.
The greyhound in question was the well-performed, but not so well-known, Lucy's Light, whose record was impressive enough for the betting syndicate to target the dog as a certain winner.
Because greyhound racing really isn't all that popular with the punters, the TAB betting pools are normally pretty small. And that's why the syndicate targeted a dog race, because it doesn't take much money to manipulate the odds in a greyhound race.
It took about $150,000 in bets to land the estimated $1 million payout on Lucy's Light. And here's how it worked. In essence, the punting syndicate took a group of bookmakers by surprise, inflating the winning odds by 1,000 per cent in the final minutes before the race started.
Most of the bookmakers who took the bets on Lucy's Light are based in the Northern Territory. And they offer a service that's outlawed in most states, whereby they will match the same odds offered by the TAB in the state which is hosting the dog race.
So the punters set out to manipulate the Queensland TAB odds without the bookies in the Northern Territory knowing.
They did so in the knowledge that the Northern Territory bookies were legally bound to match the price of the Queensland TAB.
Using Queensland TAB telephone betting accounts, the punters placed $16,000 on each of the other five greyhounds in the race, and they left it to the last minute, so as not to reveal their plot.
By backing the other runners, they pushed the winning odds of Lucy's Luck out to $13 on the Queensland TAB – nice odds in comparison to the $1.30 dividend of all the other TABs.
And that's where they made their million. While some of the group focused on pushing the odds out on their TAB in the dying seconds before the race, the others were heavily backing the dog with the unsuspecting Northern Territory bookies.
The punting team plonked about $75,000 worth of bets on Lucy's Luck, spreading the money with a variety of bookies so as to avoid blowing their cover.
When the punters had done all they could, it was then left up to the unsuspecting greyhound to do its bit:
(sound of greyhound race call: "… Up goes Lucy's Light, takes the lead from Floatsy Maxi, now she's coming away… Lucy's Light gets away to win by seven lengths")
DANIEL HOARE: Greyhound racing authorities as well as bookies and the TABs have been left highly unimpressed by the sting.
But there's little they can do, as there are no laws preventing punters from manipulating betting pools.
And the bookies know that if they're going to offer TAB odds, there's risks involved.
One of the bookies who got caught out in the sting was Christian Sawyer, from the betting firm CentreRacing in Alice Springs.
CHRISTIAN SAWYER: What they've done is manipulated a system to their own advantage. I mean, I can't see what they've done is illegal… it's something which the (inaudible) bookmakers have tailored as a product. So it's something they've got to wear when things like this happen, so…
DANIEL HOARE: Do you think it's all fair when it comes to this type of thing?
CHRISTIAN SAWYER: Well, as I said, it's not illegal, it's probably, I mean, they've put on a sting, or a rort, depending on what you want to call it, and they've got the money, so…
DANIEL HOARE: Have you ever seen a greyhound sting like this before?
CHRISTIAN SAWYER: Not to this extent. I mean, as I said, I've seen them manipulate TAB pools before, but not to this extent.
TANYA NOLAN: One of the unsuspecting Alice Springs bookmakers, Christian Sawyer. That report from Daniel Hoare.
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- greenbook
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Re: Re: tote bet cancellations
16 years 4 months ago
that strategy isn't too far off the way the big bookies used to (legitimately) manipulate the SP in the UK. a comparatively small bet placed in the ring could affect SP prices around the country.
EDIT: the SP manipulation is normally to depress the price on a runner when they get stuck out, but the technique works equally well to falsely inflate a price too
cat and kobus should cosy up with Mr Attenborough and hatch a plan to destroy the open bet...
EDIT: the SP manipulation is normally to depress the price on a runner when they get stuck out, but the technique works equally well to falsely inflate a price too
cat and kobus should cosy up with Mr Attenborough and hatch a plan to destroy the open bet...
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- Jamster
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Re: Re: tote bet cancellations
16 years 4 months ago
GB it still happens now!
Most greyhound bags races are manipulated.
If a dog is say 4/1 and a 'big' bookie thinks it too high they'll go in and have £200 on it and it'll shorten to 7/2 - if they want it smaller, they say £400 7/2 - the small bookmaker gets the msg and refuse the bet and stick 3/1 up.
It happens everyday of the week!
Meanwhile joe smo in his betting shop on a staurday morning thinks - wow! Must be 'big money' for this one - no it's took £200-500 on track to affect a market of £100,000's
Most greyhound bags races are manipulated.
If a dog is say 4/1 and a 'big' bookie thinks it too high they'll go in and have £200 on it and it'll shorten to 7/2 - if they want it smaller, they say £400 7/2 - the small bookmaker gets the msg and refuse the bet and stick 3/1 up.
It happens everyday of the week!
Meanwhile joe smo in his betting shop on a staurday morning thinks - wow! Must be 'big money' for this one - no it's took £200-500 on track to affect a market of £100,000's
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- Bob Brogan
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Re: Re: tote bet cancellations
16 years 4 months ago
once bet a dog at crayford from 5/1 to 9/4.
when all the owners where sitting in betting shops doing a job at sp..
ps dont tell no2son it was me
when all the owners where sitting in betting shops doing a job at sp..
ps dont tell no2son it was me
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- ElvisisKing
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Re: Re: tote bet cancellations
16 years 4 months ago
scotia, I think you got it spot on there with your assumptions.
I have seen a 10/1 shot paying 1,00 place as betting opens.
obviously this owner / punter has say 2 bets on the horse 10 grand win & 2 grand win
no one else bothers to punt this horse for a place cause its paying shit ( 1,00 )
just before the off, cancel the 10g ticket..... horse runs 3rd & the place bets SHOOTS out to 3,50 + / -
it's obviously happening.
I have seen a 10/1 shot paying 1,00 place as betting opens.
obviously this owner / punter has say 2 bets on the horse 10 grand win & 2 grand win
no one else bothers to punt this horse for a place cause its paying shit ( 1,00 )
just before the off, cancel the 10g ticket..... horse runs 3rd & the place bets SHOOTS out to 3,50 + / -
it's obviously happening.
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- Jamster
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Re: Re: tote bet cancellations
16 years 4 months ago
Hence my reply - very fair very doable But will it happen . . .
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- fingers
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Re: Re: tote bet cancellations
16 years 4 months ago
This is one of the tote rules;
2.23.5 ALTERATION OF BETS: No bets may be altered after they have been accepted.
This is how the scam works – he puts 10K or perhaps more on a horse for a place, dividend is shit and horse is ignored by punters who see the dividends (mostly the mugs in the totes). Now the celebrity yanks 9K just before the off and dividend jumps from say 1.2 to 2.2. He has now massively increased his betting %, which after all is the most important part of gambling.
When I first saw him do this 10 years ago he wasn’t as flush, and used about 4K for the scam.
In the exotics he creates false favourites for scratchings – 10K or whatever on a horse, is tote fav, small dividend and ignored by punters - yanks 10K before off and another horse is favourite.
If my examples are incorrect, the celebrity or his employers can always correct me.
2.23.5 ALTERATION OF BETS: No bets may be altered after they have been accepted.
This is how the scam works – he puts 10K or perhaps more on a horse for a place, dividend is shit and horse is ignored by punters who see the dividends (mostly the mugs in the totes). Now the celebrity yanks 9K just before the off and dividend jumps from say 1.2 to 2.2. He has now massively increased his betting %, which after all is the most important part of gambling.
When I first saw him do this 10 years ago he wasn’t as flush, and used about 4K for the scam.
In the exotics he creates false favourites for scratchings – 10K or whatever on a horse, is tote fav, small dividend and ignored by punters - yanks 10K before off and another horse is favourite.
If my examples are incorrect, the celebrity or his employers can always correct me.
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- greenbook
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Re: Re: tote bet cancellations
16 years 4 months ago
what do the tote rules say about cancelling bets rather than altering them
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