BHA : Laying horses to lose is corrupt.

Andrew,

It seems you misread my question.
Bookmakers do not come into it in this instance.
It is the punter who wants to lay (on Betfair for instance) that I'm interested in.
Can an underhand coup be engineered without discovery?

Easy got the point, I think.

"Can an underhand coup be engineered without discovery?"

I think as was proven in recent cases here in the UK, Dean McKewan and co being a prime example. Betfair and its audit trail have made it very very difficult for this to happen underhanded and without discovery.


I do believe though that it does happen and is tried but i reckon its harder than most give it credit for. Even if you an owner and use someone elses acc, they monitor all accs and a person that bets £10 per day suddenly laying a horse to lose £50k would arrise suspicions. most certainly the bells would start ringing.

Also, if you depsoit £10 into your bf ac everday for 6 months and then all of a sudden deposit £50k you would need answers.

Thanks Easy, that's more or less what I was leading up to.
Also, with bf you'd have to deposit the amount you stand to lose before you can lay.
Unlike with bookmakers, there's no credit and everything is out in the open.

Karel,

i understand your question.
would like to stress that a trainer under financial pressure turns into a punter.
same applies with jockeys, under financial pressure turns into a punter.
same applies to bookmaker, under financial pressure turns into a punter.

I then furnish the following explanation..
no bookmaker can survive for a window period of 12 months, operating as a run of the mill bookmaker.
if a bookmaker does not turn to punter once a month, the bookmaker will not be able to pay the bills come month end.
by punting, i refer to laying a horse that he knows cannot come back.
by laying I imply the following..
as a normal rule of thumb, the bookmaker will lay the fav and every fav for R20k, the second fav and every 2nd fav for 10k.
today, because he knows the jockey, the bookmaker has become a punter, the 3/10 fav is no good.
a coup is plotted..by the punter..a bookie and jockey turned punter..
the bookmaker lays 4/10 and 5/10 of the horse..R300K..R400K..R500K..
the jockey gets R100K..the bookie the rest..

are the caught out..
the gambling board says nothing..
in fact these bookmakers are honored.

the same applies between trainer and bookmaker..

are they ever exposed..
no.
they are heroes.

and this happens every day..
any one wish to take me on..
get the gambling board to make all bookmakers sheets available and I will show
will remove the bookmakers name from each sheet.

yes but i think what Karel and easy are suggesting is that if one was to make use of the technology and analysis techniques that are now available, it will quickly become impossible to cheat for money on any meaningful scale and remain under the radar.

if that means the end of bookies (i doubt it) then so be it. rather not have them at all than have them conspiring with connections to interfere with the sport. at least betfair is capable of regulating this and has no stake in the result. what you are suggesting AW is that the people in positions to either make or press for these decisions for the betterment of racing collect too many golden eggs to be interested in killing the goose. if that is the case then their conflict of interest should be exposed.

Having a central server that does all the transactions per race.
The server can be "swithched off" at the jump of each race, the DATABASE LOG tapes can be printed (like PHUMELELA SHOULD DO TO PROVE ITS CLEAN).

whether its INTERBET or any other emarket, it will bring some credibility back into the industry.

monitoring tools can be used to track individual accounts on INTERBET.
this is what the auditors will devise and have implemented as part of the KING III report.

all users laying a horse for more than R25,000 (FICA limit) will appear on a report.
all users laying a horse outside his normal pattern, ie avarage lay has been R20K, and suddenly the horse is laid for R100K.

the challange comes in at the READING OF THE REPORT..(like the jockey club testing and stipes on race complaints)
the report will be read, but no one will take action..(like the jockey club on the testing and the stipes on jockeys..)
will the gambling board do anything..doubt it...

perhaps this report should be displayed realtime on the web..
sure, guys will still open accounts under fake names..
SO THERE WILL BE GUYS THAT GET AWAY...


If one look at the other side of the coin, we see that the coup has become a far more sofisticated engineering venture..

ask Jack..how many a fav(odds on) he knew about that would not and could not come back..
the PA then pays.
what is that other than a coup..
stealing the public's money..the PA pool..be it a trainer or a jockey that takes the PA 1000 times..
SO THERE WILL ALWAYS GUYS THAT GET AWAY...EVERY WEEK....