Inquiry in Cape Town

  • elmer
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3 years 3 months ago #656043 by elmer
Inquiry in Cape Town was created by elmer
There is notice in the Stipes report of an inquiry into the scratching of a runner in
the $500k race.
The horse was scratched after the morning cut off and as a result the reserve runner
was automatically taken out
Anybody know any more as I hear a scandal brewing?

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3 years 3 months ago #656047 by Bob Brogan
Bob Brogan on topic Inquiry in Cape Town
Scandal or stretching the rules?

Story doing the rounds was a horse had a medical procedure and would never had made the race, but i doubt thats breaking the rules

Just like when leaving a horse in to keep horses in the weights etc

Think i would do the same

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3 years 3 months ago #656050 by mr hawaii
mr hawaii on topic Inquiry in Cape Town
I can't find any specifics on a time when a horse needs to be scratched except I think 8h30 on the morning of a race...This is a rule that needs addressing, trainers should be FORCED to scratch horses the moment they know a horse cannot and will not run in an event... Forget owners for a minute... Punters base selections on runners and the book is priced up on that so for the sake of those that pay for stakes should it not be that they know about field changes as they happen?

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3 years 3 months ago - 3 years 3 months ago #656052 by naresh
naresh on topic Inquiry in Cape Town

Bob Brogan wrote: Scandal or stretching the rules?

Story doing the rounds was a horse had a medical procedure and would never had made the race, but i doubt thats breaking the rules

Just like when leaving a horse in to keep horses in the weights etc

Think i would do the same


The trainer/owner accepted to run but if they knew that it would not take part because of its medical procedure, why accept in the first place. Also they had ample opportunity to scratch beforehand but I see the stipe reports say lame near fore to be investigated. By scratching late, they eliminated the emergency acceptor to run in the race and therefore one less runner to beat, albeit it would been a tall order against the eventual winner.

Leaving a horse because of the weights is a total different story.
Last edit: 3 years 3 months ago by naresh.
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3 years 3 months ago #656053 by naresh
naresh on topic Inquiry in Cape Town
Ugh, I forgot. Even finishing in the places was a big cheque due to the $500k stake money.

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3 years 3 months ago #656054 by Bob Brogan
Bob Brogan on topic Inquiry in Cape Town

naresh wrote:

Bob Brogan wrote: Scandal or stretching the rules?

Story doing the rounds was a horse had a medical procedure and would never had made the race, but i doubt thats breaking the rules

Just like when leaving a horse in to keep horses in the weights etc

Think i would do the same


The trainer/owner accepted to run but if they knew that it would not take part because of its medical procedure, why accept in the first place. Also they had ample opportunity to scratch beforehand but I see the stipe reports say lame near fore to be investigated. By scratching late, they eliminated the emergency acceptor to run in the race and therefore one less runner to beat, albeit it would been a tall order against the eventual winner.

Leaving a horse because of the weights is a total different story.


Yes I agree , but in business and sport etc everything to gain advantage with in the rules has to be accepted?

If no "rules " are broken it can't be a " scandal"

Like Starbucks never paying tax

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  • elmer
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3 years 3 months ago #656057 by elmer
elmer on topic Inquiry in Cape Town
A trainer is supposed to advise the Club immediately a horse becomes a doubtful
starter
Recently a jockey was fined for not advising that he could not meet his riding
commitments
I don't buy Starbucks because I don't drink coffee As a matter of principle if I did I would not buy from Starbucks
But then again all the International companies cheat whichever way to avoid tax
Helped by the BIG 5 or is it 3 now

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3 years 3 months ago #656058 by mr hawaii
mr hawaii on topic Inquiry in Cape Town

elmer wrote: A trainer is supposed to advise the Club immediately a horse becomes a doubtful
starter

Recently a jockey was fined for not advising that he could not meet his riding
commitments
I don't buy Starbucks because I don't drink coffee As a matter of principle if I did I would not buy from Starbucks
But then again all the International companies cheat whichever way to avoid tax
Helped by the BIG 5 or is it 3 now


Where do we find that rule?

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3 years 3 months ago #656112 by johanm
johanm on topic Inquiry in Cape Town
a) A NEW DAWN (AUS) – lame on the left fore. Rule 53.5 applies. (To be investigated)

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3 years 3 months ago #656114 by Over the Air
Over the Air on topic Inquiry in Cape Town
There is absolutely nothing that can be done to the trainer. I dont know who the trainer is but I am being presumptuous and assuming that the trainer had other runners in the race. If the trainer had scratched timeously, this would have allowed a reserve runner to participate and possibly cost his owners stake monies. Unsporting, perhaps. In breach of rules, never.

Before anyone mouths off, let me remind you of a famous race where a reserve runner beat a triple crown seeker. The horse was Kournikova.

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3 years 3 months ago #656118 by Zietsman Oosthuizen
Zietsman Oosthuizen on topic Inquiry in Cape Town
What precise time was the horse scratched ??

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3 years 3 months ago #656120 by mr hawaii
mr hawaii on topic Inquiry in Cape Town

Zietsman Oosthuizen wrote: What precise time was the horse scratched ??

I think on raceday but too late for emergency runners to get in, the horse had an operation on the Monday(I think) before the race and was never running...

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3 years 3 months ago #656121 by Sylvester
Sylvester on topic Inquiry in Cape Town
both Emer accept. have both runs since MET Day and did not light the tracks up.

seems storm in tea cup

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3 years 3 months ago #656129 by Bob Brogan
Bob Brogan on topic Inquiry in Cape Town
A TRAINER, ASSISTANT TRAINER or STABLE EMPLOYEE (where applicable):-

10.5.12 shall notify the SB immediately he becomes aware of any circumstances that could lead to
the scratching of any HORSE trained by him which has been entered for a RACE and, if
called upon to do so, shall without delay furnish the ROR with a supporting veterinary
certificate where appropriate;

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3 years 3 months ago #656130 by Bob Brogan
Bob Brogan on topic Inquiry in Cape Town
49. ENTRIES
49.1 All entries, scratchings, and the declaration of HORSES, RIDERS, grooms, blinkers,
pacifiers, tongue ties, tongue straps, sheepskin cheek pieces and racing plates shall be made
in terms of the RULES and the RACING OPERATOR’S conditions, as published from time to time52. SCRATCHINGS

52.1 No HORSE shall, save as provided for in the RULES, be scratched or withdrawn from any
RACE for which it has been entered unless and until the OWNER, or the holder of his
authority to act shall have given notice to the ROR concerned and such scratching shall only
be deemed to be effective at the time of receipt of such communication by the ROR.
52.2 Scratchings must be advised, in WRITING, or by telephone to the ROR. Scratchings by
telephone shall be confirmed in WRITING on the same day. Failure to submit such written
confirmation may not affect the validity of the scratching and the decision of the ROR whether
to accept such scratching shall be final and binding.

53.3 Save as provided for in RULES 4.2.9, 4.2.12, 4.2.13, 4.2.14 and 49.7, no HORSE may be
scratched after the time of final declarations except:-
53.3.1 with the permission of the SB;
53.3.2 if it becomes ineligible in terms of the conditions of the RACE;
53.3.3 if the date, venue or the distance of a RACE is altered in terms of RULE 49.19;
53.3.4 if there has been a non-compliance with RULE 39 by the time prescribed for a HORSE to
be on the RACE COURSE in terms of RULE 57.1.2, in which event the HORSE may be
withdrawn from the RACE by the SB;
53.3.5 if there has been a non-compliance with RULE 38 by the time prescribed for a HORSE to
be on a RACE COURSE in terms of RULE 57.1.2, in which event the HORSE may be
withdrawn from the RACE by the SB;
53.3.6 if the equipment to be carried by the HORSE during the RACE is found to be defective.

53.4 Should the OWNER or the holder of an Authority to Act wish to scratch a HORSE on
veterinary grounds after final declarations in terms of RULES 4.2.12, such request shall be
made, in writing, to the SB. Approval of such request shall be at the discretion of the SB.

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3 years 3 months ago #656134 by mr hawaii
mr hawaii on topic Inquiry in Cape Town

Bob Brogan wrote: A TRAINER, ASSISTANT TRAINER or STABLE EMPLOYEE (where applicable):-

10.5.12 shall notify the SB immediately he becomes aware of any circumstances that could lead to
the scratching of any HORSE trained by him which has been entered for a RACE
and, if
called upon to do so, shall without delay furnish the ROR with a supporting veterinary
certificate where appropriate;


That rule is pretty clear... i

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3 years 3 months ago #656135 by mr hawaii
mr hawaii on topic Inquiry in Cape Town

Sylvester wrote: both Emer accept. have both runs since MET Day and did not light the tracks up.

seems storm in tea cup


If you had an emergency runner in a 5 million rand race and you knew there was a runner that would not run I think you would want your horse to run regardless of its ability.. after all you spent money buying at the sales just to have a ticket for this race...

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3 years 3 months ago #656136 by zsuzsanna04
zsuzsanna04 on topic Inquiry in Cape Town
Hardly the point, Sylvester.

Regardless of what the inquiry does or does not find, what this situation has shown is that these big money races present difficulties in more ways than one and as we have seen here, there are a number of challenges and eventualities that the rules do not cater for.

As an academic exercise, it would be interesting to list what the fine would be for the late scratching. And then by comparison, what the various places paid..... I'm guessing there is likely to be a large disparity.

The concept is sold on the premise that everyone has a fair shot at the money. Unfortunately the bigger the stake, the bigger the temptation. So particularly with races with lots of '0's paid paid out in dollars, additional measures need to be put in place.

In this case, it's likely closing the door after the horse has bolted, but whatever happens with the inquiry, I hope the authorities and organisers learn from this and tighten up the rules.
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3 years 3 months ago #656143 by Over the Air
Over the Air on topic Inquiry in Cape Town
I have just been informed that the horse in question is a Ramsden horse and owned by the Joostes. If this is indeed true ( I am working on hearsay ), then I believe Brugman has done his job by protecting Jooste interests and keeping a Crawford horse out.

Unsporting it is most definitely. Breaking the rules a lot less clear - wait for the we thought he would have recovered and gave him every chance excuses.

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3 years 3 months ago - 3 years 3 months ago #656146 by Tappa
Tappa on topic Inquiry in Cape Town

Over the Air wrote: I have just been informed that the horse in question is a Ramsden horse and owned by the Joostes. If this is indeed true ( I am working on hearsay ), then I believe Brugman has done his job by protecting Jooste interests and keeping a Crawford horse out.

Unsporting it is most definitely. Breaking the rules a lot less clear - wait for the we thought he would have recovered and gave him every chance excuses.


I don't blame him/them, I would've done the same thing. Nice guys finish last, we are dealing with big money here!
Last edit: 3 years 3 months ago by Tappa.

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