A Question for Craig and Louis.

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5 days 22 hours ago #757852 by MissT
MissT created the topic: A Question for Craig and Louis.
When looking at the comments for today's Kimberly meeting it s poor to say the least. I'm sure not SPs fault but all the no comments and MAY needs are just not helpful. I know this topic has been bandied around for a while and Louis has explained why getting comments to early is not accurate. Punters really could use whatever help they can get and as many have said barrier trials dont seen to help much. So Craig or Louis why is not possible for trainers on the morning of a meeting to spend no more than 2 minutes of their day to either SMS or What's app comments to either SP or Its a Rush ( if that still exists) or some other social media that everyone could access. Nobody expects inside info just comments like ' very well can win' or 'bloods all good should go close' or' work not good and bloods wrong'. This can only help the people who fund the game and would really be appreciated. Why would trainers not want to do this ? It really would take no longer than a couple of minutes. The USO thing is so drawn out snd now looks to be over anyway.
I'm not sure of the best way to get this info to ALL punters but it could only help and is so vital in my opinion to getting betting turnover up and to at least look transparent. Just my opinion but would like a comment from any trainer as to why this wouldn't or couldn't work.

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5 days 22 hours ago #757853 by Karma
Karma replied the topic: A Question for Craig and Louis.
im obviously not a trainer, but will add my 2c.... tbh, (and imvho), i think they have tried (most if not all), but when the comments are not correct they come in for crazy verbal abuse... horses, like humans can also have good / bad days, yet this is often forgotten and assumed that they should run their best race every time they on track... personally, if i was the one coming in for abuse while trying my best to help as much as possible, i would also show a toffee..... (just my opinion of course)...

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5 days 22 hours ago #757854 by MissT
MissT replied the topic: A Question for Craig and Louis.
Karma I get that and you not wrong but there will always be one or two who cant help themselves however the vast majority would welcome any constructive comment I'm sure.

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5 days 22 hours ago #757856 by Karma
Karma replied the topic: A Question for Craig and Louis.
Yip, and i too am one of those in the vast majority camp....

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5 days 21 hours ago #757858 by Mac
Mac replied the topic: Re:A Question for Craig and Louis.
What comments would you like the trainers to say?



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5 days 19 hours ago #757865 by MissT
MissT replied the topic: Re:A Question for Craig and Louis.
C'mon Mac !! Ive said my bit. What would you like to hear? If anything.

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5 days 18 hours ago #757867 by louisg
louisg replied the topic: A Question for Craig and Louis.
I am with Karma, from an abuse/unnecessary criticism point if view. I have even tried to share info on this site in the past and have actually given a good double for the day or suchlike and then when s few forumites have said thanks, there had to he those who attacked me because the horses that I tipped and which duly won, were favourites....

However, I am firmly in the camp of Miss T on this one. Yes, our Owners would like to get on their horses and yes, if we were right just 70 percent of the time, we would all be retired and many bookies would be gone.

We live in a Society where paper represents the killing of trees and where the electronic media is the future. So, the early comments which are sought by the printed press is the problem. In most instances, these are sought before we have even seen a racecard.

I have been branded as not being prepared to comment to the public, such story originating from the printed press, who never listened to what I was saying. The SP, in particular, had a go at me.

I repeat, for the umpteenth time, that I have a 5 point check on the morning of races. Leavings, legs, blood test, temperature and how does the horse look ? I am done with this by about 10h30 on a normal raceday. THEN ONLY, can I make an informed and accurate call. Nowadays, too much can go wrong or even right, in the last few days leading up to a race.

An example is yesterday at Scottsville. Our filly Factor Fifty was scratched at the start, not striding out. This does not easily happen in pur yard. Check the records...
Why did this happen ? Why was the horse not scratched by us on the morning ? I left on Thursday morning with my runner to jhb and got back from Turffontein on Saturday night after races. I went straight to races on Sunday. At the same time, whilst I was in Jhb, Lauren was hospitalized. The Assistants never picked this problem up. The problem occurred between Friday and Sunday. I obviously gave the filly a chance, as I had engaged Anton. If you asked me on Tuesday, I would have said BIG RUNNER...and then imagine the complaints...

I give a daily podcast to my Owners on my runners. It goes out after 11am. I have offered to share this voice podcast in WhatsApp form, but GC are still trying to figure out where or how to slot it in.
On course I always try and help all Punters and enjoy doing it.
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5 days 18 hours ago - 5 days 18 hours ago #757868 by Mac
Mac replied the topic: A Question for Craig and Louis.
:-). At MissT
What I would prefer to hear is the horse’s mass on race day. You can then presume if the horse is fat by comparing the mass to its previous masses published in the race card.
The Cape used to do this a few decades ago. I thought it was very useful.


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Last Edit: 5 days 18 hours ago by Mac.

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5 days 18 hours ago #757869 by MissT
MissT replied the topic: A Question for Craig and Louis.
Txs Louis my point exactly. There will always be the odd a hole. But then the problem seems in your case to be the operators. If you are already doing this they are unable to give you a platform for all to see that's sad. Let's face it on USO trainers were interviewed and gave comments surely it would be a whole lot easier to just take a few minutes and send via what's app or SMS to somewhere for all to see. Where or how I'm also not sure but surely in this day and age we can find a way.

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5 days 18 hours ago #757870 by Dave Scott
Dave Scott replied the topic: A Question for Craig and Louis.
Thanks again Louis and all the best to Lauren

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4 days 21 hours ago #757955 by mickeyblue
mickeyblue replied the topic: A Question for Craig and Louis.
There is zero value in these comments in their current format and the people responsible are wasting their time. Likely to be green, will need the run, needs further etc etc are just space fillers.

The solution here is very simple and it boils down to accountability.

An odds-on shot gets beat, the question needs to be asked in the post mortem as to why. Ask the trainer before the next race and share the info, get a camera and microphone into the jockey room and catch them as they weigh in, especially after a group 1 as they do in Oz or Hong Kong. Speak to stipes after decisions. Get people communicating and suddenly it all changes. People just want to know they got a fair shake.

It's a very different scenario when you hear a horse was found to be lame, jockey felt something amiss with an explainer, bled, tied up etc etc rather than feeling like you did your money in cold blood without any explanation.

Until TT presenters and the media guys ask the tough questions rather than trying to keep a trainer / jockey / sponsor / whatever sweet on them then this will never go away.

How frustrating is it as a punter when the stablemate wins and suddenly you hear in the post race how the winner has beaten the companion in work etc etc. Or how you suddenly hear a hot favourite missed crucial work or had a setback. These are things punters need to hear and should be allowed to.

Nobody wants a trainer to label a good thing and I don't think anybody is asking for that. Sometimes trainers are able to, some of them are really good at it. And the argument that owner should get first bite is quite right and very valid. The owner pays the bills and should be entitled to getting a good price when the info is good.

But racing needs punters, and winning punters reinvest. Losing punters, when they think they have a shot at regaining losses, are likely to bolster accounts and fire again.

There's an element of skill required when betting on horses and that's the challenge. Spying something that stands out in the ring or moves to the start well, reading form and ratings, assessing races and run-ons etc. If you are going to be let down by that then great., that's on you and your interpretation If you are going to be misled by misinformation or a lack thereof then that's not on.

And on the flip side, the abuse is unnecessary and there are obviously some sad souls who take it too far and ruin it for everyone. Also likely betting more than they should.
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4 days 20 hours ago #757956 by Over the Air
Over the Air replied the topic: A Question for Craig and Louis.
This is a great post by Mickeyblue. One thing that I would add, is often in a race, there are more than 1 stable that believes that they can win the race, and this is particularly true in handicaps, as it should be. So often comments are given with the best intentions, and are proven to be inaccurate. The bottom line is punters like to have a bet and are generally happy that their choice was a trier regardless of where they finish. The misinformation is the killer. There are one or two stables that deliberately put us into the bush, particularly with 1st timers. That is not acceptable. A no comment definitely beats a will need the run comment in these scenarios. Greeffed is becoming a racing term for good reason and the father and son team up in Joburg are fond of pulling moves after claiming a horse will need a run.

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4 days 20 hours ago #757957 by MissT
MissT replied the topic: A Question for Craig and Louis.
Well said both Mickeyblue and OTA. Nothing worse than hearing an interview after the race when a trainer or jock or whoever says the horse was really well and has put up decent work we expected him to go close. As Mickeyblue says its vital that punters have access to this info for so many reasons. How to get it is the question? And are trainers really reluctant to help out in this way? We've heard many times a horse will need the run only to see it shorten dramatically in the betting and then winning. Great for the connections but for the masses a kick in the teeth. I have no problem with owners getting first bite but then on the day of the race post the truth period.

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4 days 20 hours ago #757958 by PeeKay
PeeKay replied the topic: A Question for Craig and Louis.
Thanks Mickeyblue.....I have mostly the same thoughts as you.

From what Louis has shared with us all here before....I can easily say he is one of the better judges. We are at a loss because of what others have said / insinuated on this site.

Louis I always enjoy your posts and understand why you dont tip here anymore. We all know.....or at least most of us.....this is called gambling for a reason and if you lose....that's how it goes and we try again. The problem is people bet more than they should and if something goes wrong in a race then it's a big deal and emotion is brought into the replies.

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4 days 19 hours ago #757960 by Muhtiman
Muhtiman replied the topic: A Question for Craig and Louis.
....quite often I believe that trainers are not really out to deceive.....it is just that they have no clue...:oops: ,,,,,,this game is not an exact science.....some horsemen are very good judges and know what they are doing..... but there are many that are not and are simply going through the motions on a wing and a prayer.....hoping that a good thing lands in their lap and try their best not to f@ck it up....the comments mostly made are an additional lip service to connections that pay the bills ....and not for Joe public to be kept in the dark....horses are not machines they are often quirky with many vices.....some work like bombs and fail at the track....others show nothing and then switch on in a race....the addage that horses make fools of us.... is all too true.....so trying to label them to make a fast buck is a gamble and you still need good luck.....;)

My idea of "help from above" is a sniper on the roof
and a higher power is a hell fire missile armed drone.

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4 days 18 hours ago #757968 by easy
easy replied the topic: A Question for Craig and Louis.

PeeKay wrote: Thanks Mickeyblue.....I have mostly the same thoughts as you.

From what Louis has shared with us all here before....I can easily say he is one of the better judges. We are at a loss because of what others have said / insinuated on this site.

Louis I always enjoy your posts and understand why you dont tip here anymore. We all know.....or at least most of us.....this is called gambling for a reason and if you lose....that's how it goes and we try again. The problem is people bet more than they should and if something goes wrong in a race then it's a big deal and emotion is brought into the replies.


PeeKay

just contact me and take a share in one of the many horses we have with Louis. Then you will get the podcasts 1st hand....

BUT

do you party?
play golf?
socialise?

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African Betting Clan is established for the upliftment of the sports punter, who enjoys a bet on horseracing, football and other sports, enabling them to voice their views and opinions on all aspects of the sport of their choice, free of charge. Everyone who joins the CLAN, can discuss a multitude of sports events with a view to increasing the knowledge-base of all interested parties. Horse Racing is by far the most represented sport and we welcome the views of the many owners, trainers, punters and all racing stakeholders, all of whom post their contributions on our discussion forums. Members glean what they want to and discuss selections for the day and the general well being of the sport.

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