kieth steinberg and others including myself

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Re: Re: kieth steinberg and others including myself

13 years 10 months ago
#154499
To all horseracing pundits, which includes all punters, trainers, jockeys, breeders and all of you who love this wonderful game of horseracing?

I would like to take this opportunity and place it on record that my posting on this site “Does Basil Marcus deserve his trainers licence in SA” was in hindsight a huge mistake, for which I apologise most profusely. Not only might it have created a bad image for Basil Marcus but it has also created a similar one for me.

My reason for doing it was not really out of anger for his unethical actions that occurred a few years ago, which was done and dusted, but rather for his subsequent attitude towards myself, my family and my peers and his reluctance to accept what he did was wrong. He has never ever apologized to me or others, who were all witness to his actions.

Many of you have said I need to tell the story and need to put my name to it

For those of you who don’t know the story, in short, he trained a very good horse for me “Majestic Sun” who won 7 races and was placed 5 times in his first 13 races. To Basil’s credit it was a magnificent training feat to say the least.

After his 7th win an offer was made by a prominent Hong Kong Trainer to Basil Marcus through a 3rd party of R2 Million rand. The prospective purchaser had thought that Basil owned 50% as his name was reflected on the records as a part owner. He in fact only owned 10%, the balance of 90% was owned by me.

The prospective buyer had called Basil the day after his 7th win and made an expressly clear offer of the R2 Million. Basil did in fact call me and mentioned that there had been an offer of R1.5 Million. My words to Basil were as follows” Basil, R1.5 Million is a lot of money, but it won’t change my life, but if they offered R2million, I might consider it” Basil clearly indicated to me that the highest they would go was R1.5 Million. I suggested he call them and let them know that I would accept R2 million and revert to me a.s.a.p. I didn’t hear from Basil for a few hours, so I called him and he said “I told them you wanted R2 Mill and they declined emphatically.” I was also told that these were his contacts in Hong Kong from his Jockey days and he didn’t want to name the prospective buyer. Basil indicated to me that this horse would win the Queen’s Plate in two month’s time.

Well I accepted his word and continued. When the horse ran a disappointing race in the Queen’s Plate the 3rd party acting for the prospective buyer approached me on the day and said I should have taken the 2 Million offer. To my amazement, he told me there was only one offer of R2 million and never R1.5 million as Basil had indicated to me. In addition there was only ever one phone call and Basil turned it down flat.

Well to be honest, I was horrified, not because of the money, even though it was a large amount of money and I am fortunate enough that it might not have made a difference or have changed my life, but the letdown knowing that Basil had lied to me was such a disappointment. Up until that time Basil had been a hero for me and others and had always appeared to be a paragon of virtue in most racing circles and certainly in my eyes. My family and I, who all adored him, were in a state of shock and we all found it almost impossible to believe.

Obviously I investigated the facts surrounding the apparent offer right to the source and found it all to be true and in fact was given to me in writing. Basil wanted me to go with him to Australia to purchase some more horses but in the interim I had bought 2 extremely expensive horses for another trainer which were imported from Argentina. Basil had found this out the day before the J&B Met, in which Majestic Sun was running in. Basil went berserk, telling him how dare I do such a thing and did I know how humiliating it would be for him, since he had done so well for me etc. etc. I explained to him that I had already purchased numerous expensive horses for him and that I need to get a different perspective of the racing game and wanted to spread my wings a little. He could not accept this and in fact was with his brother Selwyn at the time. He was furious with me and to be honest, since I was now aware of the truth of the offer and that Basil was extremely unhappy that I had bought other horses for another trainer, my day at the J& B Met was not a happy day for me and of course the horse also ran right out of it.


The following Monday morning after the Met, I called Basil to meet me with my accountant and close friend for a meeting. Basil duly arrived and I asked him a simple question, “did you receive an offer for R2 Million for the horse?” he immediately jumped out of the chair and proceeded to start screaming at me,” I am Basil Marcus, how dare you accuse me of stealing R500 Thousand.” No one accused him, I just merely asked him a question. His reaction was really ugly. He continued to say” I will take you to court and you will never race your horses in SA again. He continued “It will take you at least 2 years in the High Court to get your horses released and I will do whatever it takes to see to it”

Well his harsh words and his actions were unacceptable to me and the meeting ended. I drove straight to my closest friend, who happened to be a senior advocate at the bar. This same advocate had helped Basil get off a positive dope case on a technicality, with one of his other owners horse, for which I had assisted him in doing, at no cost, merely to protect his reputation.

My advocate friend and I immediately prepared papers to launch an urgent application to have my horses released, in which we were obviously successful and we had them released the very next day.

Well I was advised by numerous people to go to the NHRA, since there were other issues that I had become were aware of which included someone at Basil’s office having copied my signature on one change of ownership and had used it for another, for which I was furious. The NHRA investigated and recommended to me that I lay criminal charges against Basil. Since I had my horses and the fact that Basil was this hero in racing, it was mentioned to me that it was not in the interest of racing to pursue the matter.

I agreed to drop the whole thing in the interest of racing and more specifically as it was not in my nature to do harm to anyone, never mind my fellow Jew. For the record, I attempted to make contact with Basil on numerous occasions, specifically so that at the racecourse we could be amicable and cordial. He emphatically refused even to shake my hand and on numerous occasions I greeted him at the racecourse and he just ignored me. When he was so successful with Jay Peg, each and every time I sent him a congratulatory text message including the other partners and most importantly including Selwyn Marcus. When I saw the excitement of Selwyn Marcus on TV in Dubai when Jay Peg won the Dubai Duty Free, I had a lump in my throat and I can honestly say I shed a tear of joy for them.

To this day Basil has never greeted me or acknowledged me either by text to say thanks for the good wishes, nor has he ever bothered to even apologise for his actions.

Yes the post of mine was careless and not justified but rather emotional and spontaneous out of anger having heard that Basil was coming back to Durban to start training again. My main reason for me not wanting him to train again is because besides my bad experience, I have since heard of so my other incidents that occurred with other owners, breeders, jockeys assistants etc. he also in the process when he trained in Cape Town seemed always to get his own way with the authorities and the operators, making such a fuss of everything always. It has been said that many new small trainers had been waiting for so long to get boxes at Milnerton, yet Basil kept on getting more and more. I think he eventually had about 120 boxes. As you all know he was highly successful for me and numerous others and to be honest he is certainly a really good horseman. He is probably one of the best around. He has the knowledge, he has the experience and he has the reputation. The rest is history and off he went to Singapore.

My gripe is not really what he did to me, because I have forgiven him, but rather that he has never forgiven me for standing up to him for what was right. I was the first person in his career to stand up to him. He was clearly wrong and his reaction to my questioning him was wrong. He should have accepted he was found out and apologized profusely. I certainly do not believe he had intentions of trying to steal R500 Thousand from me, but he probably didn’t want to lose his most successful horse at that time so early in his training career.

Barry Irwin posted that Basil Marcus is a true Mensch. He said to be a mensch means be a true gentleman in Yiddish. I certainly didn’t mean to discredit those who weren’t Jewish or whether they were married to a Jewess or not. I was merely saying that you sometimes need to be Jewish to recognize one. Barry Irwin was partly correct but to be a mensch it means something much deeper. A mensch is a person with whom you would be happy to befriend and associate with, because you feel genuine in a mensch's presence and has nothing to do with looks, with wealth, with success or with intellect. A mensch exudes a certain magnetism that attracts us, whether or not words or glances are exchanged. A person is a mensch because he simply makes others feel so good.

I've never really known a full-fledged mensch, although I've come across a few saintly types from time to time. Each one of them contained certain qualities that interested me because, you see, I aspire to become a mensch. Right now, I cannot boast that I possess those qualities, but I'm working on it. I've known a lot of people who think they're mensch's. They'll expound their righteousness: "I'm a good person, I don't harm anyone", they'll tell you. My first reaction is not whether they cause harm; I prefer to ask, "how much good do you do?” although I usually hold my tongue out of respect.

Take the word “mensch,” does generally mean “a good person,” but this Yiddish term also goes much deeper. In fact, it is steeped with Jewish concepts of what it means to be an individual of integrity. Another Yiddish/German word, menschlichkeit, refers to all the qualities that make someone a mensch.

For those of you who might be interested, Jewish law require us to have the following 5 values and to be a mensch you need to:

Help Others
This may seem like a no-brainer but too often we become so engrossed in the details of our own lives that we forget about the importance of helping others. Whether someone needs a small favour or their life is in danger, to intervene so long as we can do so without putting ourselves at risk. "Do not stand by while your neighbor’s blood is shed," says Leviticus 19:16.

Do the Right Thing the Right Way
Winston Churchill once said, "Attitude is a little thing that makes a big difference." How does this apply to menschlichkeit? A mensch not only helps others but does so with the right attitude – and without expectation of return. For instance, if you bought a horse for a small trainer who was really battling to make ends meet that is a noble thing to do, but if you repeatedly joke that they "owe" you or brag about your influence to others, then a good act has been tarnished by a negative attitude.

Be a Peacemaker
To be a good Jew you need to not only to be kind to others but to do so even when we really – really – don’t want to. If you are driving down the road and see someone you greatly dislike stranded by the side of the road, standing next to their broken-down car, you should not think to yourself "Ha! That's what he gets!" and drive on by. Rather, Judaism asks us to stop and help our enemies when they are in need. Unlike Christianity, which commands people to love their enemies, Judaism commands us to act justly and to treat our enemies with compassion. The only exception to this rule is in the case of truly evil people, such as Adolf Hitler. In cases like this Jewish texts warn us against misplaced mercy that may ultimately allow the perpetrator to commit additional acts of cruelty.

Strive To Be a Better Person
By appreciating who we are and striving to become better we can enjoy life to the fullest and be a positive influence in our community. A famous Rabbi once said, "If you won’t be better tomorrow than you were today, then what need do you have for tomorrow?"

Most importantly to be a forgiver
Forgiveness is often the most difficult. To give up resentment against someone or the desire to punish or to stop being angry with a person or to pardon them and overlook their shortcomings is most important in Jewish law.
If we have been hurt or betrayed we might need time and hard work to rid ourselves of negative feelings. It could be a long process of healing and soul searching, until the feelings of resentment actually disappear from our heart and soul. The ideal form of forgiveness is the where we restore the relationship. However, this is not always possible. Some relationships are so toxic that the responsible thing is to walk away from them. But we don't need to take an "all or nothing" approach. If restoring the relationship is impossible it is not always necessary to terminate all contact or become antagonistic. We can still achieve a more basic level of forgiveness by wishing them well. We can still cease being angry and give them basic respect. We can still greet them when we see them and give them the dignity that every human being deserves.

Back to Basil Marcus, the question is how can you forgive someone that really hurt you especially if it is someone close, and the trust between you has been shattered? Well I did, and I wished him well, yet he still has a grudge against me for questioning him and finding him out. He needs to forgive and make up with all of the others that he has fallouts with which are apparently quite numerous.
Basil is a fantastic horseman and has an amazing pedigree himself. His`+ record speaks for itself. He has a fantastic family and a lovely wife. They both have 2 really good sons who are extremely nice young men and Basil and Debbie can both be very proud of them. I certainly would want to support young Adam if he becomes a trainer and if he wanted me, I would certainly buy him a horse. Basil’s brother Anton is in my opinion one of the finest jockeys in the world and he certainly conducts himself in the most exemplary fashion with absolute honesty and integrity and his humbleness in his speech at the equus awards was extremely admirable. Most young jockeys look up to him. Basil’s other brother Selwyn has the passion for the game and deserves all the credit for supporting his 2 brothers the way he does.

I am personally still friends with all of the other trainers that I moved horses away from and certainly don’t have any gripes with any of them. We as owners should be able to choose who we want to race with and who we want to buy horses for. The trainers need to understand this.

I don’t race for the money, I race for the fun. I want to have fun. The money aspect is the bad part of racing, which has given the racing game a such a bad name, as they say “"The love of money is the root of all evil. I don’t let the money part get to me or influence me. Yes you may say it is easy for me to make that comment because I may be more fortunate financially than others. For the record, I am completely self-made, having worked extremely hard for my money honestly and ethically and come from a lower income middle class family with no money and no help from my parents save for their support and love.

I am a God loving Jew and try to stick to the rules. I do not smoke and I do not drink. This is not to say I am better than those that do, each to their own. I did smoke and drink many years ago, but now I try to live a cleaner life. I do not Punt, although occasionally I may have a small bet for fun, I certainly do take my regular PA’s Pick 6’s and Jackpots when I attend the race meetings to create more fun on the day, but my interest is my love for horses and horseracing. Everybody who knows me well will tell you how fanatical I am about the welfare of the horse and how I have gone to extreme lengths to look after my retired horses and others, which I still pay for and visit regularly. All of my retired horses get the very best homes and are all taken care of with the best of Veterinary care and attention. I sometimes spend more effort on retired horses than those in racing or on stud farms.

My involvement and investment in horseracing is huge and although not nearly as large as some of the very big owners, I would say that 40 horses (of which about 30 are unraced) 19 in Cape Town, 16 in KZN 4 in JHB and 1 in PE is fairly substantial and I would hope that it would certainly entitle me to have a small say in the goings on in horseracing in this country.

I maintain that until we get our ethics right, we will not succeed. Racing needs to be seen as ethical and honest. We have so many owners who just cannot afford to own horses anymore and are just not coping with the expense. We need to attract the many young successful citizens, who have the disposable income to own racehorses. They simply have the impression that horseracing is a dirty game and they don’t want to be seen owning racehorses. In addition we need to attract the many large corporates who have huge advertising money to spend, but don’t want to be associated with horseracing. You cannot blame them. They have such a bad impression of the game, with all of the shenanigans that go on in our game. You just need to read this forum for a few hours and it makes you think.

I just hope racing gets fixed soon. It seems that Cape Town racing might be back on track soon and hopefully with some new brooms, they might sweep a bit cleaner and the smaller owners can survive. Some of us are a little more fortunate than most and we can take the pain, but I can assure you, I know plenty of small owners, trainers etc., who been in racing their whole lives and are taking huge strain and are swerving in all directions to keep going and I am afraid that many of them might not survive.

In addition, some of us bigger owners need to take a stance and need to try to get the Vets In CT to accommodate the smaller owners (and us of course too) to try to reduce the charges, while we are going through such tough times especially in Cape Town, with less stakes, less race meetings, yet still the same vet bills (even higher than before) they are the chasing most of our small owners away and have made it just impossible for them to carry on. The vets need to understand this and we are simply letting them just go on with no control. Also some of the smaller trainers have become the main owners in their yards as most of their owners have run away (many without paying) and these guys are just not coping. I feel for them. Then you get well off trainers and especially the ones who leave SA for greener pastures, then come back, because they had it easy here and push around the authorities and operators to get their own way and of course make it harder for the small trainers to survive and compete. We need to look after the small guys. They are the backbone of racing and without them racing is not what it used to be. Racing cannot be controlled by the big boys and the little guys suck hind tit.

Lastly I challenge you Basil Marcus to shake my hand and apologise for your mistakes and be a “mensch” as they have referred you to as in the posts and all will be forgiven. I have apologised for mine and I certainly do apologise for posting all of this on this forum, but all and sundry felt I was cowardly to remain anonymous, although most knew who I was. I needed to come out in the open.

Although I have not necessary always been an angel my whole life, I can quite categorically say that I have never been seen as dishonest nor have I defrauded anyone as it seems or appears in other postings. In addition I have never intentionally ever caused anyone any financial harm. I do not owe anybody any money and have always put my money where my mouth is. For those of you who know me will confirm that I have always been known to have acted with the utmost of integrity at all times to the best of my ability in both my business dealings and with my horseracing activities. We sometimes do all make mistakes for which we need to pay for. I certainly have paid for my mistakes. I certainly have no intention of continuing to hurt Basil Marcus or debate this issue any further. I do honestly think I can hold my head up high at any racecourse, I have nothing to be ashamed of and certainly have no conscience other than the suffering small owners and trainers who need help desperately. I would like to see a little more transparency in this great game of ours and our image to the potential newcomer into horseracing needs to improve drastically, sooner than later.

I would like to apologise to anyone who I may have offended in this thread or post including Basil Marcus and look forward in the future to reading some more positive posts on this website and others. I won’t be posting again as I have said what I needed to say which is shown in all of the above.

Sincerely
Keith Steinberg

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  • umlilo
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Re: Re: kieth steinberg and others including myself

13 years 10 months ago
#154517
@Keith Steinberg:

Man is distinguished from animals by his humaneness; religion should be an integral part of him to ensure that s/he does so as all religions teach similar values and ethics.

You will have your detractors, but, you a brave man to have said your piece which is shocking!

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  • Harris
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Re: Re: kieth steinberg and others including myself

13 years 10 months ago
#154551
I doubt very much Basil will ever shake your hand. Not after this. Those in the industry will treat the above post with shock and horror. Keith, my advise would be to withdraw it ASAP. You have left Basil Marcus no alternative but to take you to the courts.

I wonder what role ABC will play in this. From being a fun site for racing comments they are now in the limelight for the above post. I think what we are reading here will one day end up in the newspapers.

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  • pirates
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Re: Re: kieth steinberg and others including myself

13 years 10 months ago
#154574
the situation explained above is rife in the racing industry where trainers bloodstock agents and breeders get together and rip owners off..it is done by plenty high profile people some of them who are on boards that run this industry//i take my hat to ks for being prepared to write what he did because it needs to be exposed and those people who do it be punished and thrown out the industry...many owners upon finding out about being taken for a ride have left the industry but the scum who did it remain..

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  • umlilo
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Re: Re: kieth steinberg and others including myself

13 years 10 months ago
#154577
@Harris:

'I wonder what role ABC will play in this. From being a fun site for racing comments they are now in the limelight for the above post. I think what we are reading here will one day end up in the newspapers. '

When the s#it of Juju and the ANC is posted here, there has been no hesitation in wading in for the kill (defamatory or not); with nary a mensch amongst them!

For me, it's not only a learning curve, but also enlightening revelations .... like numerous other comments that cannot be classified as ' role ABC.... being a fun site for racing comments' only.

The function of communication is, inter alia, to inform, entertain and educate.

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  • Harris
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Re: Re: kieth steinberg and others including myself

13 years 10 months ago
#154580
Pirates, have you heard Basil's side of the story ? I mean is Keith Bonkers ? He is exposing Basil as a thief but in the same posting he would like to send Adam Marcus a horse to train. What is the point of calling a man a champion jockey, a great trainer, a good father and in the same breath a conman ?

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  • Bob Brogan
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Re: Re: kieth steinberg and others including myself

13 years 10 months ago
#154581
Harris,Pirates and CO do you think the thread should be removed?

Is the guy posting really Keith Steinberg?

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  • umlilo
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Re: Re: kieth steinberg and others including myself

13 years 10 months ago
#154582
@Harris:

Your comment:
'Those in the industry will treat the above post with shock and horror. Keith, my advise would be to withdraw it ASAP.'

and ....

'Are YOU Jewish?
If you were , you would be aware of the fact that a REAL Jew NEVER tries to ridicule,Insult or torment another Jew !' (from the other thread by S Marcus)

Who brought in race and religion?

So, a Moslem, Chrisitian, Hindu, African, etc, if they REAL, 'NEVER tries to ridicule,Insult or torment another'?

This is one of the most disgusting, unpalatable racist & bigotted diatribe ever posted on this site (or any other); YOU ACCEPT THAT?

AND, nobody objects to it?

What is the message being bandied- a Jew must never be exposed for any wrong-doings? WTF?

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  • pirates
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Re: Re: kieth steinberg and others including myself

13 years 10 months ago
#154583
harris lets hear basils side of the story ,all i said was this is going on in the industry and needs to be brought out into the open ...why would ks come on here and lie .what has he got to gain?

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  • Harris
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Re: Re: kieth steinberg and others including myself

13 years 10 months ago
#154584
Hibs, it is definitely Keith. My concern is that his allegations are highly defamatory and that he has had years to go through the jockey club and the courts. The man has no intention of burying the hatchet, he is just looking for further confrontation. Speak to Scotia, it is a tough call, but I would take it down.

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  • Harris
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Re: Re: kieth steinberg and others including myself

13 years 10 months ago
#154587
Fair Enough Pirates. We do not know Keith's agenda but what is he trying to achieve? If I posted on here accusing another user of raping my daughter what would your reaction be ? Leave the post up or delete it ? Keith's post whether true or false will always mean people will see Basil in a bad light.

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  • Bob Brogan
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Re: Re: kieth steinberg and others including myself

13 years 10 months ago
#154588
I have edited this thread until further notice,the post still remains it is just hidden from view.

I will speak to someone about the thread later and we will decide what to do..

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