60 Days for Bling
- Chris van Buuren
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Re: 60 Days for Bling
8 years 10 months ago
I'm not sure if this one and the striker incident can or should be compared. Two different horses, courses and of course jockeys.
What the NHA needs to establish is if Bling purposefully tried to pull the horse for gain or whether he simply misjudged the ride. I don't think they decided on this penalty because of the striker ban, they merely used it as a line and increased it because of the previous trouble khumalo got into.
Very hard to prove intent my boys, I'm sure the lawyers will back me up!
What the NHA needs to establish is if Bling purposefully tried to pull the horse for gain or whether he simply misjudged the ride. I don't think they decided on this penalty because of the striker ban, they merely used it as a line and increased it because of the previous trouble khumalo got into.
Very hard to prove intent my boys, I'm sure the lawyers will back me up!
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- Saint Tropez
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Re: 60 Days for Bling
8 years 10 months ago
Wonder what Tarry and "Funnychurch" make of the punishment?
Who will ride the stables elect over the next two months?
Who will ride the stables elect over the next two months?
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- Dean321
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Re: 60 Days for Bling
8 years 10 months agoSaint Tropez wrote: Wonder what Tarry and "Funnychurch" make of the punishment?
Who will ride the stables elect over the next two months?
Muzi -notice he has been riding for the stable.
And Lyle.
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- Over the Air
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Re: 60 Days for Bling
8 years 10 months agoElvisisKing wrote: I'm not sure if everyone is reading me correctly. I'm not saying he pulled the horse to get beat........he basically applied the brakes too early, ie BEFORE THE FINISH LINE ..... an error of judgement yes, A BIG ERROR, but in my eyes a greater offence than that of Striker, If u listen to the commentary, this horse should have won by 5 or 6 ....... applying the brakes too early ( slowing the horse down, pulling it up ) - certainly changed all that.
I was told that the commentator got a warning for his commentary from his employers, it seems see no evil hear no evil speak no evil applies
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- Bob Brogan
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Re: 60 Days for Bling
8 years 10 months ago
This will hit Bling hard he rides 5,6 even 7 days a week
When Strydom got his 20 days he rode 3 times a week so missed about 9 or 10 meetings
When Strydom got his 20 days he rode 3 times a week so missed about 9 or 10 meetings
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- wonbyamile
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Re: 60 Days for Bling
8 years 10 months ago
Jockey S’Manga Khumalo was charged with a contravention of Rule 62.2.1 in that as the rider of CAPTAIN COURTEOUS, he failed to take all reasonable and permissible measures from approximately the 450m to ensure that his horse had been given a full opportunity to win or obtain the best possible placing in Race 3 run at the Fairview Racecourse on 24 June 2016.
From the 450m mark....he was lengths infront in the last 100 then 'pulled' it to lose the race! Snaith's reaction to jock him off any future Snaith's runners was immediate and carries more honesty than the outcome
From the 450m mark....he was lengths infront in the last 100 then 'pulled' it to lose the race! Snaith's reaction to jock him off any future Snaith's runners was immediate and carries more honesty than the outcome
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- Bob Brogan
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- Huchergh
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Re: 60 Days for Bling
8 years 10 months ago - 8 years 10 months ago
The point of a ban/fine should surely be to act as a deterrent.
Intent is almost impossible to prove,so bans/fines need to be draconian in order to prevent jockeys acting in a manner that the racing authorities don't want them to act.
R1000 fines for saluting before the finishing line are clearly not a deterrent,so clearly just keep increasing that fine until it stops such behaviour.
Similarly jockeys should be fined/banned in such a manner so as to prevent further future behaviour of the same.
Is 60 days going to deter Bling?
Time will tell.
Intent is almost impossible to prove,so bans/fines need to be draconian in order to prevent jockeys acting in a manner that the racing authorities don't want them to act.
R1000 fines for saluting before the finishing line are clearly not a deterrent,so clearly just keep increasing that fine until it stops such behaviour.
Similarly jockeys should be fined/banned in such a manner so as to prevent further future behaviour of the same.
Is 60 days going to deter Bling?
Time will tell.
Last edit: 8 years 10 months ago by Huchergh.
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- Huchergh
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Re: 60 Days for Bling
8 years 10 months ago
This is an article I've posted in previous years,but here it is again for anyone who may not have seen it.
It's obviously not comparing apples with apples,but none the less it goes to showing how deterrents can be introduced.
By J A McGrath12:01AM GMT 05 Mar 2007
Timing is everything. This weekend, there would be no better person to ask for verification of the old adage than Chris Munce, the Australian jockey who was jailed for 30 months in Hong Kong last week after being found guilty of selling tips.
Munce, 37, was a big name in his native country. He achieved every Australian jockey's dream of winning the Melbourne Cup and had also won plenty of other big races. In two decades, he rode 40 Group One winners.
The court in Hong Kong heard that Munce had the equivalent of £16,000 in cash and a list of horses and bets in his pockets when arrested by officers of the Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC) leaving a local hotel in July last year.
The ICAC is an all-powerful independent group of enforcement officers who have more extensive powers than the local police. They have been involved in racing cases several times.
Prosecution lawyers argued that Munce was having bets placed on his behalf in exchange for tips or the passing of information. Two key figures involved in the jockey's operation - a middle-man and a punter - were granted immunity for giving evidence against him.
Emotional scenes erupted when the verdict was read out by district court judge Kevin Browne. Munce's wife Cathy broke down in tears before shouting: "You'll never get anyone here again." That cry was almost certainly inaccurate, but you can see where she is coming from.
To say this conviction has sent shock waves through the ranks of jockeys - and licensed persons in general - is an understatement. And it is not just in Hong Kong that the effects may be felt. This is a landmark case, as it is the first time a jockey in Hong Kong has been convicted for accepting advantages in return for tips. Munce's legal team have indicated he will appeal.
Anybody who has visited Hong Kong and seen the frenzy of even a normal raceday and the 48 hours leading up to it, will know that this is indeed a ground-breaking case. In Hong Kong a jockey is a god. If he walks into a crowded restaurant a table is always found. In the old days, it was a standing joke that any Hong Kong resident would rather have dinner with a leading jockey than the Governor.
Naturally, the reason for this is the craving for information about horses and their likely performances - or tips, as most would say. The Munce case has sent a very clear message to those wishing to ride in Hong Kong, but it has also highlighted an important change in the interpretation of what giving tips involves.
The judge found that Munce had undermined the intregrity of Hong Kong racing by "selling secret information" yet the jockey's legal team had argued that while this contravened the local rules of racing, it was not a criminal offence. It is this interpretation, and whether it also applies to other racing jurisdictions that will be the key to how racing is to be policed.
Britain's Horseracing Regulatory Authority have already stated they will take on cases, where their powers and access to phone and betting accounts provide the information they require - rather than handing them over to the police.
Paul Scotney, the HRA's director of security, has recently briefed trainers on the subject of "inside information," stressing that his department is only looking to punish those who pass that information on for corrupt or fraudulent purposes. He has promised a definition of "inside information" by the end of April.
As I said, timing is everything. Munce could be excused for wishing he was riding in an earlier, less-focussed era in which jockeys were almost expected to have 'punters'. But, racing has moved on, and times have undoubtedly changed.
I reckon this deterrent probably worked.
It's obviously not comparing apples with apples,but none the less it goes to showing how deterrents can be introduced.
By J A McGrath12:01AM GMT 05 Mar 2007
Timing is everything. This weekend, there would be no better person to ask for verification of the old adage than Chris Munce, the Australian jockey who was jailed for 30 months in Hong Kong last week after being found guilty of selling tips.
Munce, 37, was a big name in his native country. He achieved every Australian jockey's dream of winning the Melbourne Cup and had also won plenty of other big races. In two decades, he rode 40 Group One winners.
The court in Hong Kong heard that Munce had the equivalent of £16,000 in cash and a list of horses and bets in his pockets when arrested by officers of the Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC) leaving a local hotel in July last year.
The ICAC is an all-powerful independent group of enforcement officers who have more extensive powers than the local police. They have been involved in racing cases several times.
Prosecution lawyers argued that Munce was having bets placed on his behalf in exchange for tips or the passing of information. Two key figures involved in the jockey's operation - a middle-man and a punter - were granted immunity for giving evidence against him.
Emotional scenes erupted when the verdict was read out by district court judge Kevin Browne. Munce's wife Cathy broke down in tears before shouting: "You'll never get anyone here again." That cry was almost certainly inaccurate, but you can see where she is coming from.
To say this conviction has sent shock waves through the ranks of jockeys - and licensed persons in general - is an understatement. And it is not just in Hong Kong that the effects may be felt. This is a landmark case, as it is the first time a jockey in Hong Kong has been convicted for accepting advantages in return for tips. Munce's legal team have indicated he will appeal.
Anybody who has visited Hong Kong and seen the frenzy of even a normal raceday and the 48 hours leading up to it, will know that this is indeed a ground-breaking case. In Hong Kong a jockey is a god. If he walks into a crowded restaurant a table is always found. In the old days, it was a standing joke that any Hong Kong resident would rather have dinner with a leading jockey than the Governor.
Naturally, the reason for this is the craving for information about horses and their likely performances - or tips, as most would say. The Munce case has sent a very clear message to those wishing to ride in Hong Kong, but it has also highlighted an important change in the interpretation of what giving tips involves.
The judge found that Munce had undermined the intregrity of Hong Kong racing by "selling secret information" yet the jockey's legal team had argued that while this contravened the local rules of racing, it was not a criminal offence. It is this interpretation, and whether it also applies to other racing jurisdictions that will be the key to how racing is to be policed.
Britain's Horseracing Regulatory Authority have already stated they will take on cases, where their powers and access to phone and betting accounts provide the information they require - rather than handing them over to the police.
Paul Scotney, the HRA's director of security, has recently briefed trainers on the subject of "inside information," stressing that his department is only looking to punish those who pass that information on for corrupt or fraudulent purposes. He has promised a definition of "inside information" by the end of April.
As I said, timing is everything. Munce could be excused for wishing he was riding in an earlier, less-focussed era in which jockeys were almost expected to have 'punters'. But, racing has moved on, and times have undoubtedly changed.
I reckon this deterrent probably worked.
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- Bob Brogan
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Re: 60 Days for Bling
8 years 10 months ago - 8 years 10 months ago
Hugh would it be a bigger deterrent to start fining and banning more and more
Instead of accepting Jockeys explanations?
Some jocks riding in SA would lose their licences if riding on the island
Instead of accepting Jockeys explanations?
Some jocks riding in SA would lose their licences if riding on the island
Last edit: 8 years 10 months ago by Bob Brogan.
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- Huchergh
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Re: 60 Days for Bling
8 years 10 months ago - 8 years 10 months ago
I made money on one of today's winners simply because I recognized what the jock was doing last time when that horse got beaten.
After watching the replay anybody with any degree of racing aptitude should recognize it(you mentioned it on the thread that day after the race),but the 'policeman' somehow are incapable(or I hope not) / choosing not to discipline the applicable jock,and therefore nothing gets done.
I'm happy,it provides opportunity,but that clearly isn't good for racing as it will only lead to the inevitable of punters walking away from the game.
All I know is that fines/bans should be adequate so as to stop jocks from acting in a manner which in future prejudices punters money.
Imo Bling made an error.I don't think there was any malice.
However,this 'error' was a jockey being egotistical,and it's unfair for jockeys to continue costing punters their money simply to satisfy their own egos.
After watching the replay anybody with any degree of racing aptitude should recognize it(you mentioned it on the thread that day after the race),but the 'policeman' somehow are incapable(or I hope not) / choosing not to discipline the applicable jock,and therefore nothing gets done.
I'm happy,it provides opportunity,but that clearly isn't good for racing as it will only lead to the inevitable of punters walking away from the game.
All I know is that fines/bans should be adequate so as to stop jocks from acting in a manner which in future prejudices punters money.
Imo Bling made an error.I don't think there was any malice.
However,this 'error' was a jockey being egotistical,and it's unfair for jockeys to continue costing punters their money simply to satisfy their own egos.
Last edit: 8 years 10 months ago by Huchergh.
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- Over the Air
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Re: 60 Days for Bling
8 years 10 months agoBob Brogan wrote: Hugh would it be a bigger deterrent to start fining and banning more and more
Instead of accepting Jockeys explanations?
Some jocks riding in SA would lose their licences if riding on the island
Why should the policing and associated punishment be any different in any racing jurisdiction in the world?
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