gold circle and phumelela put this in your pipe and smoke it

Well said.

I think it is past time for us (owners) to look after ourselves BY putting the punter, our customer, first.

Let's grow "The Pot" by making our product, and the way we sell it, BETTER!, not by squeezing more out of the customer or having the small mindedness of the RA who want to ban proper competition (which the customer wants). I mean 'they' have banned the Sporting Post from racing property, I can't be counted amoungst those people, I'm sorry. They should be encouraging publications, to make the sport richer, not poorer.

Grow "The Pot", not steal for it! Diversity! More is better!

JD, GB, as you know I live in the UK, so I'm not much up on the SA betting politic.

However, did I read somewhere that you guys are/were bookmakers?

I checked the 'who are you' but I know Dave recently cleaned it up so maybe you can re-post your details.


Anyhow JD, good to see your an owner too - have you had any decent types? Although I've an ear in Clan Classique, I'm still waiting for a wholle leg to win - lol!

Jim.

I'm an owner (mostly shares now and no champions yet) and a breeder, but I thought this was a betting forum. For a while I worked with a mate who is a bookmaker and what an eye opener that was.

I'm fed up with the attitude that owners have here with never a thought that there are others in the food chain, how 1/4 Billion rand is LOST by punters to finance "The Pot". People who think that racings most urgent problem is stakes when that isn't even close to true.

To be fair, I have known many great owners that never expressed the grubbing that you find from the RA and others. They understood the element of gambling inherent in ownership and had a sense of the sport as well. It seems that many think there has to be a way to cut the cake in a way that no one ever loses and that punters MUST bankroll the sport for owners just because they have a bet on their nags.

I wish there was more respect for the enthusiasm of the ordinary 70,000 punters/supporters who are just as important to the existence of racing as the 3000 owners who are the participants.

When a punter has a bet on your horse, for that ten minutes he is your partner, and he supplies the money you may win. Yet we treat them like shit, try to figure how to squeeze more out of them and keep the best facilities for ourselves (of course, what else).

Now I promise that's the end from me, it's a wasted exercise for folk who feel they are cheated instead of privileged. RIP. I'm off to see how you blokes do it in the UK next week.

Jack Dash you say:

"When a punter has a bet on your horse, for that ten minutes he is your partner, and he supplies the money you may win."

Yes and No, depending where he takes the bet. If it is with a bookmaker then your statement is wrong, and that is the crux of this tread. Even if we argue that Phum and GC waste plenty, then one must agree that is cost a fortune to keep the racing show going. Somebody has to pay for it.

When one sell a product, your price has to include your cost of sales. Phum and GC funds the cost of sales and the bookmakers gets it for virtually free. You conveniently leave this out in all your arguments. Sorry you can argue till you are blue in the face, but Phum and GC have my full support in this matter. It has little to do with owners, but with the cost of running the racing product. Level the playing feels.....that is what is needed. The irony is that when the bookmakers pays their dues then the takeout precentages in total will reduce by plenty.

Finally ask the many great owners that you knew, how many months keep did the winning cheque for a maiden race cover in their days. Then do you calculation today.

Hi Cat

I do ramble. Sorry.
I am not taking the piss.

In one non-rambling line for you, owners run racing and all they care about are owners and I wish in magazines or telly track or here even, we could acknowledge how important all the players are, especially the golden goose and not just the oversubscribed group.

But pls, I feel like one batsman against 100 fast bowlers here. Can't..take...much....more...urg! (falls to a heep - light fades - thunderous applause?)

It is very simple no punters equals no stakes. Punters provide all the money that racing is run on.No horses means gamblers will gamble elsewhere - so who needs who?

Don't shoot the messenger AB. By the way AB you can also own a Virtual Horse.

This is true nagboy, do they eat as much as a normal horse?

Jack Dash and nagboy:

1. How do you propose to fund the running of Racing?

3. What will bookmakers do when GC and Phum refuse them access to their intelectual property, and all racing feeds.?

2. How would you employ the thousands of workers that will be unemployed once virtual racing replaces racing as we know it?

1) Sharkie racing is currently funded as it always has been and always will be - By the punters. The only way to increase stakes is to find more punters especially tote punters.

3) Do you know something the rest of us don't?

2) I have never advocated virtual racing - AB is the one who keeps bringing it up. I am sure however that Phumelela would love to have only overseas and virtual racing because then they wouuldn't have to worry about stakes, tracks, training centres, owners, jockeys, trainers, Catsmug etc.

Sharkie,

1. Reduce prize money and hopefully the glut of horses we have at present.
2. They will go to the competitions board and sort out GC/Phum once & for all
3. Where people generally go when an industry dies or changes direction; ask around in the financial industry these days

Nagboy says:

(a) Sharkie racing is currently funded as it always has been and always will be - By the punters.

YES, BUT HOW.


(b) The only way to increase stakes is to find more punters especially tote punters.

FORGET STAKES. DO YOU THINK THE TOTE AND BOOKMAKERS SHOULD CONTRIBUTE EQUALLY TO FUND THE INDUSTRY ie ONE TAKEOUT FORMULA FOR ALL?

OR ARE YOU OFF THE OPINION THAT ONLY THE TOTE SHOULD FUND RACING?