gold circle and phumelela put this in your pipe and smoke it

The tote operators and bookmakers should contribute equitably. Without all the facts it is very difficult to say what is equitable.

who takes the bigger risk when taking bets..the tote or the bookies..does the tote take any risk

i have heard that a bookmaker has taken up an issue of not being able to advertise on tellytrack with the competition board as bookmakers pay +- 9 million a year towards the funding of the programme.Certain bookmakers and other role players have been asked to give input and the board will rule next month.

Cat writes: karel - reduce stakes? rather just terminate local racing. Clinton Binda must be charging you good rates to make that statement

Why would a stakes reduction kill local racing?
Racing (and breeding) is and has always been a pastime for the wealthy.
Compare horse sports other than racing, where vast amounts of money are paid for good stock, without any financial returns from performance.
They do it because they want and can afford to do it.

As the saying goes, owning horses is like having a yacht or a mistress, enjoy the ride but don't expect a return.

I think that the preoccupation with prize money rather than the welfare of the paying customer (the punter) is obscene.

Karel

Let's forget STAKE MONEY. Let's talk about the COST OF RUNNING RACING. It is a fact that Racing is largly funded by the tote, with a very small contribution from the bookmakers.

Everybody is defending the poor punter, and I agree with them. If the bookmakers contribute equally to racings running cost or even a fair amount, then the take out from the tote pools can reduce drastically, which will result in higher payouts for the smaller, poor punter. So who is it then that is the cause of your poor punter suffering.........the tote or bookmakers.

The open bet, is ample proof of how little they care about all this (and the poor little punter that everybody want to defend.) There is every chance that this poor little punter is a tote customer.

Call in someone like ModelManFan to come up with an actuarial formula for tote and bookmakers as to what gets earned by them and what goes back to racing. Bookmakers to pool an "insurance" type fund to protect themselves from getting hurt by big punts almost the same as insurance companies goes to the reinsurance companies to spread risk. The risk excuse then disappears. Maybe less will be earned by the bookie but the risk will also reduce greatly and the will end up ahead on the swings and round abouts.

Sharkie writes: Let's forget STAKE MONEY. Let's talk about the COST OF RUNNING RACING.

Ok, let's ignore stake money.
What then is the cost of running racing?

The cost of staging race meetings is self-inflicted by the operators.
They won't let anyone else open a race course, or a Tote for that matter.

What if a consortium of bookmakers would want to run a racecourse and a Tote.
They couldn't.
The operators are hellbent on having a monopoly, but without the responsibilities.

And by the way, the argument of the open bet is without value as long as no one quantifies the cost to the operators. I haven't seen any numbers from anyone.

This is a very interesting thread, also consider Dubai, no punters, no bookies,no tote, no drinks? just lots of rich people trying to breed or own a champion.

betting world is owned 80% by gold circle and phumelela and 18 months ago the report on their turnover on fixed odds betting was as near as dammit as follows.Turnover 430 million Gross Profit 44 million Nett profit 14 million after bonuses etc nett 11 million that is for 27 outlets now 30 +-.This gives a net of each shop of R500,000 per annum or R40000 per month for working every day of the year except Christmas day.The overall financial picture given at the conference held in April last year reflects the same pattern for all bookmakers.G.P. R311 million 210 bookmakers countrywide equals a gross per licence of R1,480,000 per year after all expenses again a nett of R500,000 per year so where is the extra money from bookmakers coming from.Ask Scotia why he gave up bookmaking if it is so easy!!!!!

We did market research years ago for the Cape Owners& Trainers Association.
Written questionnaire, with over 60% response, which was ridiculously high.
Part f the exercise was to ge the respondents to rank their ten priorities.

I do not recall everything, but I do remember that prize money wasn't in the top-five.
Top of the list was communication from their trainers.

Welcome Bob, bookmaking a long story, I am sure I posted the background somewhere on the site? I can assure you its not an easy game and the days of just writing tickets and driving a Merc are long gone.

Cat,

You miss the point.
Widen your horizon.

Have a look at who owns runners in the three Gr1 races on Saturday, for example.

Derby: Jaffee/Fieldspring, Fenix, Plattner, Crabbia, Jooste, Bloomberg, (2x), Drakenstein Stud
Majorca: Cohen, Klawervlei Stud (2x), Fullerd/Drew, McNabb, Lammerskraal Stud, Plattner, Slack, Wilgerbosdrift, Adams, Kantor/Jooste
Met: Shirtliff (2x), v Niekerk, Fullard/Drew, Adams, Hass, Devine, Beck, Mitchell, Amm

Most of them dyed in the wool enthusiast who have been around for a while. None of them short of a few bucks.

Cat, our names aren't there and unless we're incredibly lucky won't be there in a hurry.