Kenilworth, Race 3. Is this Possible ?

Well Scotia that's why i brought it up.

Took a first time punter with me to the track- first bet, he lands a 25-1 place bet, next race he takes two R20 rand place bets and " wins" them both and returns with nothing.

Hard one to explain to the uninitiated, isn't it.

true fixed odds are always easier to explain, even if they are 1/10

0/1000 is hard to swallow

Scotia,

I'm no expert but I don't believe you can "lose" on a winning bet on the tote. (I'm talking win/place bets now)

Reason being the minimums they guarantee.

R1-10 for a win
R1-00 for a place. Guess it is then possible to break even on the place bets, but they certainly cannot lose on a win bet.

Unless things have DRASTICALLY changed since my time.

Gajima phoned family is Aus tried placing bets ahead of time.

Saftote offline helpdesk said please call back during office hours.

partyline & Tommy:

agree, there's smoke.

I recollect taking e/w (10 win & R100 place), and still collecting my stakes back at R1.10 place. Now, 3 races in a row, all paying R1.00 place; so, goodbye to e/w bets!

Now, that's become completely frequent, even in large fields!

What Scotia says does not explain why the place dividends have zeroed so consistently if the trajectory is monitored for the past 6 months or longer.

Scotia,

I'm no expert but I don't believe you can "lose" on a winning bet on the tote. (I'm talking win/place bets now)

Reason being the minimums they guarantee.

Evening Tommy, not saying you can lose on a winning bet, however you are putting money on a horse to gain nothing, the horse runs in the first 3 and you get your own money back and if it does not you lose your stake so you are gambling to win nothing with the chance of losing everything

not clever

Is it a case that the pools are just poor? and any money for a horse results in redic payouts?

Never been a fan of the Tote and don`t start to understand thier workings,and im sure for the Exotic players the tote is very handy.

But surely serious punters don`t take Win and place bets on the tote?

How do you know you are getting Value?

Perhaps we can get Phumelela to publish its comingled pools on their website for each race meeting?

Then we can see where the money had come from and indeed where it is going?

Also it seems that there are some expanaitions needed for certain payouts, but as far as I can see legally they are fulfilling their obligations.

They have a pool for a bet, the pool gets taxed, divided and the dividends get declared. They are paying out a minimum of R1-10 for a win and R1-00 for a place. (Nothing they are doing can be said as being "dubious")

BUT..............What is making a huge difference and what does need to be explained in more detail is the effect the overseas money is having on our pools. There is NO doubt that with the comingling of pools there are some dodgy dividends (not illegla or wrong, just dodgy) out there right now.
I used the example of Cave Art. How can a horse pay 9/10 on the tote and pay out 4/1 with the bookmakers? That disparity is just too big to ignore.

I for one would like to know what the breakdown is of international comingled figures into our pools. That would explain why we are getting crazy payouts.

Perhaps Margaret can point us in the right direction as to whom we can speak to???

What Scotia says does not explain why the place dividends have zeroed so consistently if the trajectory is monitored for the past 6 months or longer.

evening umlilo, not sure "I" am in a position to explain?

I am guessing that the cancelled bets and co-mingling is open for "bastardisation" for want of a better word.

There is a trend, have been watching it for the last few day...The Aussies are definitely punting the big stables/big jockeys, apart from that they know jack shit....if you can find smaller lesser known stable with form horses you can get value.

Today Waley's Camp payed R3.90 and Mr One Eyed Jack returned R2.50 for the place, value imo.

Greg,

Exactly right. They only know what they read in their presses and the smaller stables hardly ever get the press. You will see how short the Laird runners are in Gauteng, the Greef/Smith horses in PE and the Bass/Kannemeyer jollies in Ctn.

Like I said before a breakdown of what is being wagered will help explain this anomily.....Guess P will be conspicuous in their absence once again?????

Dangerous Moonlight in the 2nd yesterday paid R3.80 a place ! Betting Frosty Filly 3/10, Dangerous Moonlight 4/1 and 12/1 bar 2.