Do racehorses really have confidence?

mr hawaii wrote: Yes they do - Watch a bunch of dogs - You can see the confident tenacious ones early in a litter or the ones that are quick to bark at intruders while others hide or wait to see what the confident dog does- Same with horses - You can learn confident behavior by positive reinforcement - Often horses that have a bad experience in a float or the stalls are not "confident" enough when presented by these obstacles. Confidence could also equate to experience - The more a horse experiences an event the more comfortable and confident he is.

Mr H is on the money.....although is a lot easier to spot a top dog.....than a top horse as they vary in degrees of intelligence and the better ones show attributes real early this is what some trainers refer to as a smart horse meaning very switched on and aware of what needs to be done......I once spoke to a small breeder about one of the better horses she bred.....she told me .at weaning stage this colt was the first to the feed bin......never ambled or trotted around but would sprint ahead of all his peers to in a way to show off he was better.....

In the hands of better trainers or horsemen slower horses or not so smart forward sorts need reinforcement in conditioning and a set conditioning regime to build confidence.......one of the best examples and very well illustrated is in the movie Seabiscuit where the would be champion was conditioned to be a work horse and be beaten by stable mates only when the regimen was broken and he was re-schooled did they find out how good he was

Forsure they do. No doubt they have and that can be seen from an early age in the camp with their peers. Horses biting another in a camp/race because he cant get past that horse. I believe you get two types of horses smart horses and "not so smart". The smart horses understand the task at hand and the winning culture. Once they understand this culture they dont like losing. We have all heard of a horse going sour and doesnt raise a gallop. Why ? Bad experience, not being able to win (hasnt got the ability) etc. "Lost that winning feeling " lost his confidence to perform. Good horse thrive on that attention they get from winning and it boosts their confidence even more to want to win.
It is in the nature of the animal to please their master and thats what makes them stand out as a breed. Sadly we as humans take advantage of their willing nature by sometimes putting them in situations they shouldnt be in. War,hurdles,work,malnutrition and over extending them etc. The one example springs to mind of an old cowboy movie of the horse walking in the desert till he drops dead.
Last but not least I believe a horse knows when they are good and this can be seen in their demeanour (Their confidence).

Without wanting to disappoint you guys, confidence must be measurable and the subject (the horse in this case) would have to make it's own cognitive choices. So if we take the horse, after a race, the horse would have to explain to the trainer that he either won or was beaten because of the choices s/he made during the running of the race, and as we all know, that is not possible because of the jockey who determines how fast/slow the horse travels, when to allow the horse to increase it's speed, etc, etc, and horses don't talk a language humans will understand.

Food for thought, why is it that many horses retire as maidens or one time winners - because they lack confidence or do not have equal ability (say) as a 4 or 5 time winner?

Not sure about horses but I have no confidence in racing

Bob Brogan wrote: Not sure about horses but I have no confidence in racing

what about your confidence or lack of when trying to pull a bird?

I think they have. You see a horse that is not quite top class and is used as a working companion for a top horse dies seem to loose his confidence and eventually hardly beats anything. Seen it before. What about Secretariat and that horse that starts with a S. Broke him in that rave and was never the same again if I remember correctly?

Craig Eudey wrote: I think they have. You see a horse that is not quite top class and is used as a working companion for a top horse dies seem to loose his confidence and eventually hardly beats anything. Seen it before. What about Secretariat and that horse that starts with a S. Broke him in that rave and was never the same again if I remember correctly?

Are you talking about Sham

Btw Horse Chestnut broke Pablo Zeta's heart and confidence.

The last American triple crown winner Affirmed beat a horse named Alydar in all three races of the triple crown getting closer on each occasion and losing the last leg by a nose. It never loose it confidence though has it won many features after that and beat Affirmed as well albeit on an objection. Unfortunately Alydar died in suspicious circumstances when at stud.

Very interesting thread

I may have names wrong but i think after the July Hcp Mark Sutherland said,
When Bush Telegraph passed Al Mufti? it broke his heart. {the horse's,that is}
I thought it could'nt have been such a bad break as he finished 3rd? :lol:

Confidence is an emotion and therefore a state of mind, destroy that and obviously all confidence is lost... We like all other living things are born with a certain level of confidence the same way we are all born with a certain level of ability and through our life experiences we either grow in such or not, the same applies for race horses, the principles can be measured with remarkable accuracy.

johnnycomelately wrote: Very interesting thread

I may have names wrong but i think after the July Hcp Mark Sutherland said,
When Bush Telegraph passed Al Mufti? it broke his heart. {the horse's,that is}
I thought it could'nt have been such a bad break as he finished 3rd? :lol:

Bush Telegraph beat Model Man and Wild West in the 1987 July. In 1991 Flaming Rock won from the widest draw to collar Al Mufti and Rakeen near the winning post. Mark Sutherland who rode Al Mufti in the July was then switched to ride Olympic Duel in the Mainstay which she won after Felix opted to ride Al Mufti.