Horseracing and Motor racing What do they have in common

I read that the Formula 1 driver Verstappen says that any of a number of drivers would be able to win
if they were driving Louis Hamiltons car
I think that this also applies to horseracing
Be it jockeys or trainers
Its all about the quality of the HORSE
All the top trainers have a client base of owners who buy high quality wellbred horses
The top jockeys all ride for top stables
Simple
Mercedes versus the rest

On the other hand a jock like AP McCoy could win on a horse that was not a Merc. :whistle:

Dave Scott wrote: On the other hand a jock like AP McCoy could win on a horse that was not a Merc. :whistle:

Not sure I agree with you on that one Dave. AP himself says in his book that it was being able to ride for the likes of the top yards of Martin Pipe and the McManus gig that were huge factors in the success during his career.

I think where McCoy set himself apart and showed his talent was being able to pick the right one out of a handful of stable entries and while others perceived him to be sitting on the long-shots of the McManus string etc he had in fact made the right call. That was one of his major talents apart from being a really good tactical rider.

elmer wrote: I read that the Formula 1 driver Verstappen says that any of a number of drivers would be able to win
if they were driving Louis Hamiltons car
I think that this also applies to horseracing
Be it jockeys or trainers
Its all about the quality of the HORSE
All the top trainers have a client base of owners who buy high quality wellbred horses
The top jockeys all ride for top stables
Simple
Mercedes versus the rest

Look at race 7 Fairview today.
Either the jockeys ride on Afikaburn won him the race or the jockeys ride on Star Chestnut lost him the race.
The winning jock managed to get a winning lead and the loser let the winner get too far away.

Micky we all understand the principal that big jocks get the big stables and big owners .
The point i was making was that certain jocks can win on minis and not only mercs .

AP could win on a horse that should not have won the race.

All good riders understand that you and the horse " become one" and the horse will put its trust in you and will try its best .
Unfortunately a lot of riders are not good horsemen , and so will not get the best out of the nag.

The other question to answer though is how does a top jock become a "top jock"?

My opinion is that:

1. Are able to read the race better.

2. Make the correct decisions at the critical moments more often than the rest.

3. Make far less mistakes (more reliable) than the rest.

4. Remain cool and calm under pressure.

Based on the above, not all jocks are equal. Hence I personally only have decent bets on Delpech and Lerena, although Marcus is starting to figure in as well.

Verstappen should stf bringing this argument just because we have the worlds best driver in another color

mydada wrote: Verstappen should stf bringing this argument just because we have the worlds best driver in another color

Easiest way to evaluate this is to look at what the second driver does to know whether it's the car or the driver...

Take Veltteri Bottas...Hamilton's team-mate at Mercedes...

In 3 years with Williams, no wins, no poles, no fastest laps...
In 2 years with Mercedes, 3 wins, 6 poles and 9 fastest laps...

So car or driver ? Pretty obvious to me...

The difference between a horse and a car is obvious...just like a family having 2 dogs and one favours the husband and the other the wife... certain jocks have a natural ability to get the best out of a horse either by their timing or placement of a horse .... yes the inherit ability makes a big difference but to think that any jock is equal to another just depending on rides is insane as just like horses humans are not equal.... weight is a factor to consider always...you find claimers that suddenly find form as their skill increases ...the better ones ride out their claims early while the others may never complete that test...then suddenly they are fully fledged jocks and the strike rate of the weaker jocks drops because they dont have the talent of the better ones.. an appie might have a 6 or 7 % strike rate while claiming yet this drops to 3 % or less when the claim falls away...they are not riding worse horses or have lost their ability but without the extra help from the allowance their mounts dont have the extra advantage

The main issue in SA is there are not enough 1st drivers and too many test drivers

I agree with Lionel's 4 points on Jocks. To me, though, it is scary the vast amount of obvious mistakes being made on average by the majority of jocks nowadays. This more than anything tells me that our standards have dropped substantially over the past 15 or 20 years.

As for F1 and my other love, Moto GP, it is actually impossible to compare motorsport and racing, excepting when it comes to the obvious, which is spend. To me , Lewis Hamilton is over the top when it does not go his way and he often acts like a spoilt child. However, he remains the best and I remain a staunch fan of his. Ultimately, all jocks, drivers and riders have to produce, irrespective of the spend.

The opinion/theory that the better jocks are better because they can win on the lesser rated horses is also a fallacy imho. The better jocks do achieve this, from time to time, but their championships are won on the better types, as are their Feature wins. Nobody can hope to come near in the Championships, if all that they ride are the lesser fancied horses. So, when we go back to Lionel's points, then we understand why the better jocks get the better rides.

Back to F1, we surely cannot expect Lewis Hamilton to have had any chance in this years Championship, should he have been driving Alonso's car. However Alonso would definitely have been involved in the finish, probably also have won the championship, had he driven Hamilton's car.

But....Stoffel Vandoorne or Lance Stroll....? I think definitely not.

We only have to look back at last Season and to how close Gunter was going to go in the Championship, before that untimely fall. But, where was he on the log during the last few Seasons?
So it all depends on the quality of the rides and some lucky breaks too.