Robert KHATHI banned for 4 months

Correct me if I'm wrong, but "pulling" too hard on the reigns can also cause horses to try and get their tongue over the bit?

Bob Brogan wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but "pulling" too hard on the reigns can also cause horses to try and get their tongue over the bit?

Cape Eagle is a known front runner. If its pull too hard and you try to restrain it, the tongue can go over the bit. If you let it race freely and it goes many lengths clear and it compounds then it cam be deemed you never give the horse every chance.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Like a defence pathologist will have an opposing view to the state pathologist but they are looking at the same thing. Like when Robert Bloomberg is representing his client jockeys.

Why would Mr Khathi want to pull this horse knowing full well that everything is out there for all to see... Replays.. Re runs... Slow Mo....doesnt make sense...

And Mr Khathi does not also get many rides...

Was he riding to instructions... who knows...

Were betting volumes checked on the first two finishers...

Mr Khathi must appeal...

Do the Stipes have further evidence or something?

If you look at the slow motion, about 20 meters from the line, Khathi appears to sit back in the saddle. I think, that, if anything is what they didn't like?

Still seems harsh, though.

naresh wrote:

durbs wrote:

naresh wrote:

Bob Brogan wrote:

Am I going mad, but is he physically stopping the horse from running in the closing stages?

He's doing everything but shouting whoah

It was a difficult ride. Head of the horse was going to one side. Listen to the full commentary at the end after the finish. He mentions tongue over the bit, Cape Eagle.

Look at how loose the reigns of the other two horses are compared to Cape Eagle towards the end.
Head of the horse was going to one side maybe because Khathi was tugging hard on the reigns.
Can't blame the stipes thinking he was pulling the horse back.

This is from the internet. Plus I read the airway gets effected when the tongue gets over the bit.

Almost always when a horse wants to place its tongue over the bit it represents a resistance to the bit/reins due to tension and worry. Horses will exhibit this resistance in different ways such as leaning on the reins, gaping their mouth, foaming at the mouth, tossing their head, etc.

And that what Cape Eagle was doing. Ridiculous decision.

.....depending on the type of bit ....but having too much pressure on the back of the mouth would in most cases arrest the tongue to prevent it getting over the bit but then cause the horse to go head up and try fight the bit as it is then very difficult for it to use try the tongue in an attempt to "spit" ( try push it out of the ,mouth) by putting some of its tongue pressure normally on a too loose bit or bit not seated properly..... a far too tight rein is very uncomfortable for most horses as they tend to be much more sensitive further back in the mouth....and they mostly then tend to fight this attempt of restraint...... .

riding a horse which has the tongue over the bit is really not funny. question is firstly when did it happen - during the race and was it determined to be so after the race secondly why. usually it happens because the bridle is not fitted correctly - the cheekpieces are too long which causes the bit to sit too low
if it did happen then he has been really hard done by

......Tyson won the Summer Cup with his tongue hanging out of his mouth .....I think that he may have jumped with it over the bit..... but it was out of the way and did not seem to bother him...:oops: ...even seen some overseas okes run horses and win by deliberately strapping tongues outside the mouth.....some horses "play" with the bit at the start and this is when the tongue can come over because the jock is not paying attention.....horses mouths imo have become weakened by generations of inbreeding thus major palate problems ,with softer mouths, narrower airways, thicker tongues.....bottom line breathing issues.....up to a trainer to sort it out with his bag of tricks ....the right bit.... tongue tie.. assisting headgear and correct instructions for the jock.....:S....but seen bridals not correctly fitted.... headgear coming off in races tongue ties coming undone.... leg bandages undone....rub of the green because sh!t happens....:S

naresh wrote:

Bob Brogan wrote:

Am I going mad, but is he physically stopping the horse from running in the closing stages?

He's doing everything but shouting whoah

It was a difficult ride. Head of the horse was going to one side. Listen to the full commentary at the end after the finish. He mentions tongue over the bit, Cape Eagle.

.....something definitely amiss in the mouth from very early in the race and it seems like the jock had given it rein for it to pick up the bit and only then the tongue comes over the bit.....worth taking on the blind mice as he was only trying to ensure that the horse did not wreck its face....:S

Bob Brogan wrote:

Do the Stipes have further evidence or something?

Exactly what I was thinking Bob. Wonder what the Trainer's view is on this ride? Surely trainer could have defended the Jockey's case if there was agreement that the tongue over the bit caused the problem. Maybe the trainer is complaining about the ride? or maybe hearsay evidence sparked the inquiry?
My view from a camera angle is that he pulled the horse or maybe he got unbalanced and was forced to take hold of the horse thereby pulling it.

Elmo wrote:

Bob Brogan wrote:

Do the Stipes have further evidence or something?

Exactly what I was thinking Bob. Wonder what the Trainer's view is on this ride? Surely trainer could have defended the Jockey's case if there was agreement that the tongue over the bit caused the problem. Maybe the trainer is complaining about the ride? or maybe hearsay evidence sparked the inquiry?
My view from a camera angle is that he pulled the horse or maybe he got unbalanced and was forced to take hold of the horse thereby pulling it.

......correct jock seems to be trying to not put more pressure on the bit but becomes unbalanced when trying some stick work to keep the mount straight and only then tries to steady himself by tugging on the reigns to prevent himself from falling backwards.....if it was not for the very apparent problem with the mouth as the horse seemed to be "playing" and trying to "spit" the bit from the jump.....something seems to have come undone as the bit is not seated properly throughout the race.....the vet did examine the horse post race and reported nothing obvious was detected but he like many was not watching the horse closely throughout and because the jock was softer on the reign no damage in the mouth... but doubt that the KZN assistant would have complained as he is not a doffie like some race steward that may have had a punt.....:ohmy:

Muhtiman wrote:

Elmo wrote:

Bob Brogan wrote:

Do the Stipes have further evidence or something?

Exactly what I was thinking Bob. Wonder what the Trainer's view is on this ride? Surely trainer could have defended the Jockey's case if there was agreement that the tongue over the bit caused the problem. Maybe the trainer is complaining about the ride? or maybe hearsay evidence sparked the inquiry?
My view from a camera angle is that he pulled the horse or maybe he got unbalanced and was forced to take hold of the horse thereby pulling it.

......correct jock seems to be trying to not put more pressure on the bit but becomes unbalanced when trying some stick work to keep the mount straight and only then tries to steady himself by tugging on the reigns to prevent himself from falling backwards.....if it was not for the very apparent problem with the mouth as the horse seemed to be "playing" and trying to "spit" the bit from the jump.....something seems to have come undone as the bit is not seated properly throughout the race.....the vet did examine the horse post race and reported nothing obvious was detected but he like many was not watching the horse closely throughout and because the jock was softer on the reign no damage in the mouth... but doubt that the KZN assistant would have complained as he is not a doffie like some race steward that may have had a punt.....:ohmy:

lol thats what we call the X factor :lol: :lol: