Small breeder ask Jooste why?

www.sportingpost.co.za/2014/09/breeding-industry-sales-facts/
Read this reply by Susan Rowett please Louis, she does spell it out. Is CTS going to be upfront about it and where will they support the industry or are they going to be turnover and profit based - and you will never know because their income statement will not be open book? Yes the TBA has failed at one of their market seeking endeavours and has admin control flaws but at least you know where the money is applied.
Scenario - ? does Mr Jooste want to control the whole process in racing? he may just get what he is wishing for! imagine that.

Don wrote: www.sportingpost.co.za/2014/09/breeding-industry-sales-facts/
Read this reply by Susan Rowett please Louis, she does spell it out. Is CTS going to be upfront about it and where will they support the industry or are they going to be turnover and profit based - and you will never know because their income statement will not be open book? Yes the TBA has failed at one of their market seeking endeavours and has admin control flaws but at least you know where the money is applied.
Scenario - ? does Mr Jooste want to control the whole process in racing? he may just get what he is wishing for! imagine that.

Don ,is the question in your last paragraph serious ????...................has there ever been any doubt!!...........................the interesting thing is how the industry have made it so easy ....from the operations all the way through to the breeding!

Remember how many times we asked on this forum why other stakeholders (especially breeders and owners) aren't keeping a concerned eye on developments?

Rob Breeders get looked after world wide

Sure the Irish got of tax free for years

Dave, absolutely, his passion and complete commitment is for SA racing. I would dare to compare MJ to MDK in trying to pioneer us into the international arena.
Don you are only highlighting the TBA's short-comings over and over and I must agree.
All this criticism of MJ and not one person that has said THANK YOU !
Thank you MJ ! Thank you MDK ! and as for the rest get a life and grow a pair ! Bunch of whingers !

bunch of whingers? grow a pair?
hmm yes, I think quite a few of the smaller breeders are going to fall off the wagon in the next couple of months, they will not be able to afford this fight, which is sad. This is what Doctor Thomson is highlighting. Already the breeder pool has shrunk, quite considerably, over the last decade. Alas, the battle will get rid off the driftwood, as you say, and with that, down the drain goes diversity in the market.

I am highlighting the TBA's shortcomings to compare it with the looming shortcomings of the CTS group, which is worse or less worse for the industry? - can you tell? Every situation has its pro's and cons...and some aspects of the industry cannot be run using commercial tactics, try as you might.

It goes without saying, thank you to Mr Jooste for his participation in the industry, his input. But it isn't just about participation here, it is clearly about monopolistic control.

Remember Neigh, the more control he buys himself, the bigger his social responsibilities are becoming. Is he willing to take that on board.

Don always nice to discuss matter's pertaining to our industry so please nothing personal. Why would the smaller breeders fall off the wagon ? This is the crux of the whole arguement.
These breeders to me are not invovled in this spat at all. Their facilitators TBA or CTS are available to them as always. They can choose as per normal. Whats the problem ?

Agreed, Neigh - debate. I don't know all the facts. Discussion helps bring the facts out into the open from the different parties involved.

From what I can tell for the breeders it is the costs of listing on sales, and the buy-in factor of being included into certain pursed races for horses sold on certain sales. Then, also because CTS of course are gunning for the same dates - this will split the buying market and weaken the bids, there are only so many buyers out there, as you know.

The market is tiered - meaning, there are very few buyers in at the top level, more at mid level, and a few more at the bottom level. If you raise the bottom level bar due to listing costs, a % of that tier will fall out. The 'not-sold' % will therefore increase. At all levels it will be more costly getting into owning.

What must the TBA do to be competitive? Change tactics to be like CTS? they don't have a millionaire's safety net behind them to assure payments. Their money is going into social programs which benefit all breeders.

Competition is a good thing I agree - but deliberate gunning is not. Hence the question - why? why insist your sale to be on the same weekend and date as the other company's? Why not the weekend before, or after? Or mid-week? This is what the unhappiness is about.

The breeders are going to feel it either way Neigh, in their pockets. We'll know more after the RTR weekend I guess.

Don you seem to have the impression that breeding and sales rightfully belong in the TBA camp? Do not presume that because they fund some initiatives including I am presuming, the Its a Rush campaign, that they should be protected in some way?

It would be foolish to think that Jooste and his partners would deviate from the successes they have achieved in business would it not? These successes have partly come through because they have controlled most processes in the supply chain. Why should they differ in racing? Although the majority of people in racing participate in it as a social manner or as a hobby, Jooste van Niekerk Kantor have far exceeded that stage. Looking at their shareholding in Phumelela, and the owning of the champion breeder Klawervlei, surely you would have to understand why they are busy attempting to control the breeding and sales of horses? Put yourselves in their shoes, with the multitude of millions invested and ask if you would not do the same?

From what I have read and what I have been told, the TBA is a dinosaur in modern times. They are doing things exactly the same way that they were being done 30 years ago. They were ripe for the picking should they not evolve with the times. 30 years ago I owned 3 Video Town agencies and made a good living out of them. The arrival of pay per view television caused turnover to halve within the first 3 years and I sold out. Today video rental shops are almost extinct. Why should the consumer be forced to support anything that does not fulfill his needs? The TBA is dead imvho its just a matter of time before the carcass starts to rot.

I think Louis should read a few of the posts on the sporting post site re MJ.It seems a few people see the demise of smaller breeders,unfavourable pricing for smaller players,not being accepted for premier sales etc because they don't conform to company policy.Im not saying he is bad for racing but to controlling and dictatorial.We all know the men behind Phumelela are Jooste,Van Niekerk,Kantor and du Plessis who heads up as CEO or whatever.
In a nutshell the industry is being squeezed to conform to certain people wishes.

....polarization in breeding prevents the correct mating matches from taking place.....feuds between breeders means with holding services to the more correct stallions and we will breed many more mediocre sorts.....The Doc may have a few mares that may be an ideal match to Klawervlei stallions but now will never get to use them.....on the converse Klawervlei may need the services of an opposing breeder....they will never go there either.....breeding is a hit and miss affair.......... but narrow the breeding pool and there will be far more misses..... :ohmy:

I think that Whitehouse should get the facts. It's not all about turnover. I find it laughable that TBA quote these, but steer away from average prices achieved by Breeders and numbers of horses sold at Sales.
As a small armchair Breeder, I want two things -
1)Maximum price.
2)Timeous and guaranteed settlement.
CTS ticks both of those boxes. And as a small breeder, I can keep going.

Further, the very principle of National Sales has been discarded over the last few years. National Sales horses were very carefully selected, all the years. Horses not passed for Nationals, went to Regional Sales. Nowadays, there are many horses on Nationals which would NEVER have made it there years ago.

louisg wrote: I think that Whitehouse should get the facts. It's not all about turnover. I find it laughable that TBA quote these, but steer away from average prices achieved by Breeders and numbers of horses sold at Sales.
As a small armchair Breeder, I want two things -
1)Maximum price.
2)Timeous and guaranteed settlement.
CTS ticks both of those boxes. And as a small breeder, I can keep going.

Further, the very principle of National Sales has been discarded over the last few years. National Sales horses were very carefully selected, all the years. Horses not passed for Nationals, went to Regional Sales. Nowadays, there are many horses on Nationals which would NEVER have made it there years ago.

....too true, but who says the CTS is not going to do the same.....or mark down 10/10 specimen to not get on the sale because the boutique breeder is not playing ball with the big boys.... :whistle: