Small breeder ask Jooste why?

I have followed this debate with interest and have listened to what Peter Gibson had to say on Winning Ways. The big issue here according to the TBA is that CTS have transgressed by targeting the TBA sales dates by supplying the general public an alternative sale to attend. In any other arena this would be termed competition. Personally I believe that the biggest problem racing has is the managing of competition. There seems to be a mindset in racing that you are entitled. We saw this with the open bet. We saw this with the bookies vs tellytrack. We are now seeing it with the TBA.

One thing that is not being grasped is that the person who pays is the person who should be entitled to make the decision where he spends his cash. If the terms and conditions, quality of stock, venue, customer experience, etc is better at one of the venues then expect more support. No one in this day and age should expect a monopoly to remain unchallenged.

OTA, the way this is going down will mean that we end up in the same situation with CTS having the new monopoly.

cts are certainly starting to flex their muscles and who controls cts.interesting to see if HA breeding establishment gets incorporated into klavervlei because i see he starting to own more horses with the other three

Tigershark wrote: OTA, the way this is going down will mean that we end up in the same situation with CTS having the new monopoly.

Tigershark I cannot comment on what may happen, but theoretically if the situation arises that the TBA does fold with competition surely the question must be asked how proficient were they in the first place? Again let me say I am not an owner like many on here so I have absolutely no interest in who "wins" as long as the customer gets a better deal I am all for it.

ballie wrote: cts are certainly starting to flex their muscles and who controls cts.interesting to see if HA breeding establishment gets incorporated into klavervlei because i see he starting to own more horses with the other three

I see nothing wrong with this. Why is there not concerns about the shareholding and directorships in Phumelela?

louisg wrote: Tipster, more than anything else racing desperately needs common sense in order to survive.
Many of Racing 's "greatest intellectuals" are often lacking in this dept. No matter how scientifically or mathematically correct the current handicapping system may appear, the truth is that racing is fuelled by Punters and Owners. Without them, there is no racing, . And it may just be too simple for your "greatest intellectuals" to grasp this common sense principle.
Maybe your good friend Karel pulled out of the debate because he saw that he couldn't win....?

There is no perfect handicapping system but i can almost guarantee that the punter prefers the merit rated system - if I'm not mistaken Miss K would carry more weight than Triptease if they met in a race under race figure rules so sure her owner prefers MR system too!

louisg wrote: Tipster, more than anything else racing desperately needs common sense in order to survive.
Many of Racing 's "greatest intellectuals" are often lacking in this dept. No matter how scientifically or mathematically correct the current handicapping system may appear, the truth is that racing is fuelled by Punters and Owners. Without them, there is no racing, . And it may just be too simple for your "greatest intellectuals" to grasp this common sense principle.
Maybe your good friend Karel pulled out of the debate because he saw that he couldn't win....?

Furthermore Handicapping was only brought in as an analogy. If in two years time the export protocols are changed the intellectual will praise RSA for their achievement re the OIE changing their AHS guidelines and thereby laying the necessary foundation for the protocols to change while the ignoramuses will likely sing in chorus that it is proof that the RSA were a waste of time.

Tipster, you right, punters love the MR system so much......We see it everyday in the rapidly escalating turnovers !

As for RSA, u believe they and Gibson were good. Rather leave it at that , then. U surely don't want me to go into detail about the facts that I have, first hand.

Better you assume that I know very little about anything and everything.. .. that I don't put in hours and hours of extra time into many facts of the Industry.
Rather you furnish us with your long list of participation and service to the industry.

louisg wrote: Tipster, you right, punters love the MR system so much......We see it everyday in the rapidly escalating turnovers !

As for RSA, u believe they and Gibson were good. Rather leave it at that , then. U surely don't want me to go into detail about the facts that I have, first hand.

Better you assume that I know very little about anything and everything.. .. that I don't put in hours and hours of extra time into many facts of the Industry.
Rather you furnish us with your long list of participation and service to the industry.

You've mentioned one of the RSA facts already, i.e we dont "export directly on par with the rest of the world" (wow Britain's officials must be doing a fine job, they've never had equine export issues).
Re the handicapping, are you saying that a meeting filled with conditions plates, which is basically the equivalent of a handicap under the race figure system, would attract a higher turnover than a normal meeting today :ohmy:

Tipster, let Gibson and Miedema defend themselves. Don't show your stupidity by putting words in my mouth. You surely CANNOT be that stupid ? Can you ?

Tipster thinking that you know what is best for others based upon your personal opinion is arrogance pure and simple. I would love to have more Conditions Plates as they generally give the punter a better opportunity to identify bankers on the day. As for your defence of RSA is this defence of you friend Gibson or is this defence of an organisation that spent millions and have very little to show after a decade?

Conditions/plate races are not helping turnover very much for that exact reason. It is normally far easier to find a banker in those races and therefore the punter puts fewer horses in that race's selections. Trainers don't often accept when there is a top horse or two in the race as you are normally running for a minor place so those fields are generally smaller. Having chatted to Peter on many occasions, I would not have had his patience with dealing with many of the people he had to deal with. I know that at nearly every turn there were stumbling blocks put in his/RSA's way with protocols etc. New outbreaks of H/S in sensitive areas set things back immensely and overseas delegations would jump on it in an effort to curtail South Africa's participating in the overseas sales market as it would affect their market share. They do not particularly want SA in the market as our horses are very reasonably priced for the ability they have. They do not really want a new participant in the market that they have cornered. That would cost them money in exports, government tax etc.